Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-4224349-20150319205546/@comment-26011515-20150321174551

Nearhza wrote:

ThePhilosophunctolist wrote:

Nearhza wrote:

Wouldyoukindlydance wrote:

Nearhza wrote:

Wouldyoukindlydance wrote:

Nearhza wrote:

Wouldyoukindlydance wrote:

Nearhza wrote:

Pymien wrote:

Nearhza wrote: SNIP Well welcome to the Wiki! I'm excited to see what else you contribute, loved your little chat there =)

Thanks for having me! While your theory is interesting, I would like to respectfully disagree with some parts of it. I like the idea that lion is there to guide Steven, as that seems something a person would leave their successor, but I think the room is just a room, acting as it does due to his lack of control. It's not there for any extra purposes besides what Rose herself used it for. Also, even though Rose being Pearl's mentor seems likely, I don't think Rose was a strict person. Pearl herself is stricter than the other gems, but she is that way because she wants to keep Steven safe and because she is a perfectionist. I don't think Rose, from what we know of her, would be capable of cruelty, even indirectly. Remember how Garnet described the war? Rose lead that...she's not capable of cruelty? One can fight without being cruel. Cruelty means causing pain or suffering and not caring about it. Rose, as we saw in An Indirect Kiss, cared about all living creatures, and felt horrible when they were in pain. Rose lead the rebellion to save the Earth and all the people on it. She probably felt horrible about the casualties it cost, but those who fought knew the risk. Rose wanted to keep those who had no idea what was happening, the innocent, safe from destruction. I said "come off as cruel" I know Rose is not cruel. But a leader has to make stern decisions and be authoritative at times. They have to force things, keep secrets, guide, provide, and be able to be confided in all at once. If Rose is capable of cutting down homeworld gems that she knew and perhaps cared for since she found the beauty in everything, then she's able to be a give tough love to her son and to pearl during training. That's a good point, though I'd like to counter it by saying that soldiers, generals, and mentors can be stern without being cruel. Even enemies can understand when an enemy is being merciful or cruel. A cruel soldier would prolongate death, ensuring as much suffering as possible. Rose would probably strike sure, preventing suffering. As a leader, she wouldn't sacrifice troops or execute criminals. Those actions make a cruel leader. Adversaries can respect mercy, even if they don't have it. Mentors don't have to be cruel to be stern. An example of a cruel mentor would be one who beats their disciples, mocks them, or makes them do degrading tasks for no constructive purpose. The Crystal Gems remember Rose fondly, so I don't think she did anything that would cause them to think her cruel. Let the cruel part go. I used it once or twice but it still doesn't change the rest of the theory. Leaders have to have tough love and be stern with their trainees subordinates and children. Pearl respects Garnet and Garnet's always quick to say "NO. We are NOT doing it that way." or something like that with a sharp tone. I know Rose had to be capable of at least that if she was able to handle Amythest, lead an army, and cut down other life forms. If you're only attack is the cruel part than you're falling short of really addressing the whole theory. Rose was a brilliant tactician/strategian and did what she had to the HG to protect Earth and those she cared for (why Jasper respects her) but I don't think she would need to be cruel/use tough love on any of the CG. The CG love/idolize her because she's someone they view as their savior and someone they could put their faith in and stake their hopes on. She's someone they could follow into war not because of fear but out of love. She has a charisma that makes other love and want to follow her and be someone that she acknowledges (the reason she could handle Amethyst). She'd most likely be the type of teacher/mother to use positive reenforcement and the like to foster self confidence in others. Is "fostering self confidence" not exactly what Cloud Connie did? All I'm saying is if Rose if capable of cutting down homeworld gems then rose is capable of tough love. There is no way you can train a master swordsmen by gently holding their hand the entire way. There's no way you can lead an army like that and there is no way you can raise a well rounded son like that. I think pearl is so strict because she wants to live up to Rose's stature and or because she's projecting Rose onto Steven and wants to raise him like Rose influenced her. What has Steven been learning? You can't protect someone by sheltering them from everything and pretending everything is butterflies and rainbows because its not. I'm sure if steven can figure that out, so can Rose. I'm sure she enabled Amythest sometimes and had a wild side to her too, I mean why else would she love Greg? I'm saying pearl was shaped by her sweetness and tough love, Amythest was shaped by her sweetness and understanding, and Steven is going to be shaped by all those things too. He can't stay happy go lucky about everything and we know that he won't the more times he's forced into maturity in certain instances. That's what cloud connie did. I'm not saying tough love is by any means her only tool, but sometimes a Good Leader/Mother needs it to b affective because Charisma only goes so far and Charisma alone Is not enough to last for thousands of years. Rose was well rounded in all things a leader needs including charisma and strength and tough love and sternness if necessary. That would make someone idolize you more than just having a strong personality especially if you're expecting that person to follow your commands in war. Rose was not naïve she straight up told pearl they going against the gems is a bad idea and there are lethal consequences. Love does not just have to be sweet and fluffy for it to be powerful. Again, what mother would allow their son to repress how they feel if she could stop it? First off, this comment chain is getting waaaaaaaaay too long. We should probably fix that somehow. Secondly, the cloud room was not acting to toughen Steven up, it was doing exactly as he said. The way I see it, the cloud room acts like a computer. You give it a command, and it carries it out. Steven, being ignorant of complicated technology, told the room a paradox. By telling it to not do what we wants, he gave it a command to follow to the letter, which it did. The room, and Cloud Connie by proxy, interpreted his command to mean that Steven wanted the room to make him do what he didn't want, which is tell Connie he liked the ending. The room had no ulterior motives because the room is only a tool.

Thirdly, the gems up to this point have been holding Steven's hand, protecting him from a harsh reality, especially Pearl. Remember how shocked she was to find out he was in the kindergarten? How worried she is for his safety everytime they encounter a monster? In "Political Power," the gems refused to acknowledge any danger until Steven himself told them to. In "The Return," they forced Steven to accompany the rest of the town to leave. The gems are incredibly easy on Steven.

Finally, addressing Rose herself, I agree that sometimes Rose would have to make tough decisions, but that doesn't mean she had create emnity from her followers. She clearly had great influence on the gems, and anything she said would followed immediately. Charisma alone didn't give her this respect, it was also her tactical intelligence and foresight. People listened because she was usually right.