before you comment "BUT ROSE IS A GIRL"
1: gems are genderless
2: lion gender not confirmed
now lets analysis why rose is lion:
both pink.
both connection with steven
he summons rose's sword
soo....
before you comment "BUT ROSE IS A GIRL"
1: gems are genderless
2: lion gender not confirmed
now lets analysis why rose is lion:
both pink.
both connection with steven
he summons rose's sword
soo....
Yoshimickster wrote: Personally, I think Lion is Steven's twin brother who inherited the other half of Rose Quartz powers. Mostly because I want the term "Lion-bro" to be said in the show at least once.
lion-bro sounds awesome but what other half?
Yoshimickster wrote: Personally, I think Lion is Steven's twin brother who inherited the other half of Rose Quartz powers. Mostly because I want the term "Lion-bro" to be said in the show at least once.
um, he said steven
Conflicted Bagel wrote:
Yoshimickster wrote: Personally, I think Lion is Steven's twin brother who inherited the other half of Rose Quartz powers. Mostly because I want the term "Lion-bro" to be said in the show at least once.
um, he said steven
I know steven was mentioned, what do you mean?
Dear lord all of these baseless assumptions from both sides of the argument
RE: Lion's gender:
Some lionesses have manes. Sexual dichotomy is not the perfect binary y'all would like it to be. Nature is messy. Aside from that, Lion is a magical animal, and earthly/human notions about gender and sex simply can't be assumed to apply here. The gems' usage of 'male' pronouns for Lion means nothing, because 'female' pronouns are used for the gems who are known to be genderless, despite taking on what most would consider female gender roles. Similarly, some humans IRL -- myself included -- use binary pronouns for simplicity. I have a beard, 'male' genetalia, and a 'male' name. I do not identify as a man. I use, and instruct others to use, male pronouns for myself because it is what I've always been referred to as, because I don't want to make a big deal out of it, and because they're the closest pronouns to how I identify without using weird non-standard pronouns.
TL;DR: Lion could be male, female, genderless, genderqueer, whatever. Lion could be anything. Lion probably doesn't even have a concept of gender. Making any assumptions about Lion's gender/sex is ridiculous, because Lion is a magical creature and doesn't care about your arbitrary gender rules.
RE: Rose == Lion
Alright, next thing. Rose became half of Steven. Let's take a look at that. Rose. People keep making this more complicated than it needs to be. "Oh, it's half of Rose!" "No, it's 100% of Rose!" "No, it's Rose's soul!"
Nah, bro. It's Rose. Just Rose. Specifically, Rose Quartz. Take it at face value. So, what does that mean? Rose Quartz, the Gem, the person, her self, became half of Steven, and gave up her physical form to do so. This only means that in order for Rose to become a constituent of Steven, she could no longer posess her own physical form -- this does not necessarily mean that her physical form became a part of Steven. We know for a fact that all that the Gems essentially are is... well, their gems. Similarly, are you, the conscious, thinking person, your body? Or do you exist inside of your body? I dunno man, that stuff's complicated, ask a neuroscientist or a philosopher. Gems are simple though. Gems are their gems. Steven has Rose Quartz's gem. Rose Quartz is a part of Steven. This is undeniable. (at least without some serious mental gymnastics)
It is entirely possible, though, that Rose created Lion out of the physical mass of her body upon birthing Steven. She was shown to be a lover and a student of Life in many forms. She studied it, knew how it worked, how to guide and shape it, and she may have figured out a way to create independent life out of her own Gem-flesh. If this were the case, does this mean that Lion would be Rose? No. Lion would be of Rose. It's a subtle but important distinction.
To conclude:
Rose Quartz, the Gem Person, she, herself, is half of Steven. Half. Of. Steven. Do you see anywhere that it says "half of Rose?" No. Glad we're on the same page.
This does not exclude Lion from somehow being made from what was once her physical body.
What this does mean is that Rose Quartz herself is not Lion. If I lose a part of my body, that part is no longer me. It's just biomass now. I am still me, and I am not less of me for having lost it. The bodies of Gems are basically like their limbs. They're just parts. Who they really are is contained within their gem. Lion's body could have once belonged to Rose, but now it belongs to Lion.
side note: As for why I put quotes around 'male' and 'female' in the first paragraph, I'll just quote notable comedian and ignore-er of the gender binary, Eddie Izzard: “They’re not women’s clothes. They’re my clothes. I bought them.” Similarly, when I say my pronouns are he/him, they're not men's pronouns. They're just my pronouns. Because I'm not a man. Also conflating gender and sex -- male to man, female to woman -- is super problematic. Like I mentioned above, nature is messy. There's not just two sexes and two genders. Intersex people exist. Transgender people exist. Lionesses with manes exist. Hens that crow and have big wattles like a rooster exist! I had one! It laid eggs! But it's the common usage of the vocabulary in this case, so I figured I'd just use it and explain down here.
\*drops mic*
Jesus me o-o Thats alot of typing!
snip
Quite possibly one of the more hilarious, if not insane, posts i've seen in this long, long chain. It kind of plays into my own theory about Lion being friendly to Steven because he recognizes his Gem. He was first introduced when Steven's gem was showing.
On a side note, can we possbly find a way to equate A gem's Gem with it's genitalia kthanksbai.
[Disclaimer: Apologize in advance if you think I'm calling you out/being rude or mean/starting arguments for no reason because that isn't the case. I'm also very sarcastic to the point of being caustic so don't take it personal. I'm just here to have intellectual discussions/arguments with others because this show is way more complex than it seems and understanding it from people's points of view is intriguing to me somehow. Tear me apart if you want, I'm game.]
1. RE: Lion's gender:Â "Some lionesses have manes. Sexual dichotomy is not the perfect binary y'all would like it to be. Nature is messy." That doesn't really change anything. Is a Lioness with a mane considered a Lion? Is a Lion without a mane considered a Lioness? No. A Lioness with a mane = Lioness. Lion without a mane = Lion . A hen that crows and has a wattle = still a hen. The gems usage of male pronouns is important because literally only they (which really means the crewniverse of course) knows/can decide whether or not Lion is male or otherwise. Only they can make that disctinction and they have. For all we know sexual dichotomy could be flawless in the SU universe. And obiviously 'Lion is a magical creature and doesn't care about your arbitrary gender rules.' Fun fact: Lion is a fictional creature in a fictional universe. We can literally ascribe whatever personal beliefs we have on him and it literally wouldn't matter a wink. We literally couldn't hurt his/her/its/their/feelings because they don't actually exist.
2. RE: Rose == Lion. You literally restated what people have said except in a more convoluted way. You could've summed up in one sentence what you wrote just about two paragraphs for with: 'The entirety of Rose's being is a part of Steven.' I will agree with you though that '[Rose] was shown to be a lover and a student of Life in many forms.' But never was it stated that Rose could create life from thin air/nothing. She could mold plants into what she wanted but couldn't create it from nothing. And I will again agree with you that it is possible 'Lion's body could have once belonged to Rose, but now it belongs to Lion.' But there is also a problem with that. 'Gem-flesh' as you call it doesn't exist outside/seperate from a gem. If a part of a gem is cut/blown off then it ceases to exist. A gem also can't control their hardlight forms when retreating into their gems regardless of why they're being forced to retreat (as far as we know, which means you could still be completely right). Pearl, Garnet, and more recently Amethyst have all had to retreat into their gems. If they had total control over their hardlight forms then they wouldn't need to retreat at all/ could prolong the process and could do whatever they wanted with their forms They would also be able to duplicate themselves if they wanted/needed to. But they can't. If Rose was in the process of giving herself up for Steven then she wouldn't have control over anything at all, let alone her body. And the process of creating a lifeform from scrath sounds extremely complex and requiring a lot of concentration. She probably would've been in a comatose-like state and unable to do anything.
I have to agree with Kass McK here. The main point we have to consider is that Lion does not appear to possess a gem, and as far as we know what's left of Rose Quartz is Steven's gem and half of steven's physical form while the other half is most likely the result of his father's sperm merging with Rose's projected form. Sometimes how writers or showrunners intend things to be isn't exactly true to the canon, and the only official account we've had sort of contradicts the facts we know thus far. Rose gave up her physical form to become half of Steven, which contradicts the idea that she "became a womb", which would also contradict the fact that Steven has her gem.
It is still strongly possible that Lion was created by Rose in some form, but again, I have to remind you, that things like what Lion is, and how exactly he was created, is currently 100% speculatory. We simply don't have enough information. There's no point in continuing this conversation any further, so I beseech you all, stop trying to find answers that simply don't exist. Every possible theory has pretty much already been said by now, and some of them have even already been reiterated.