PLEASE VOTE AGAIN
What is the more appropriate grammar for pages?
1st one (American Grammar): This episode is "Reformed."
OR
2nd one (British Grammar): This episode is "Reformed".
Which one?
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Citrusellaeditswikis wrote:
Blumenblatt wrote: Steven Universe is an American show, so I believe it's proper to use consistent American grammar and style. I agree that a period outside the quotation marks makes more logical sense for many reasons; however, American grammar does not style it that way. If we change to "this". instead of "this." we'll also have to convert to British spellings for the sake of consistency. That's a mess I would rather not start. Regardless of how many votes this gets, consider that British grammar is not just a personal preference surrounding quotation marks.
I would also like to add that if the wiki places the period outside the quotation marks, the formatting for quotations on character pages will have to change. Those big quotes will look ridiculous with a small dangling period outside of them.
Well, no. "American" grammar has more to do with the style manual you're using (though "end-sentence quotes like this one." do tend to be the standard). Perhaps the wiki should come up with its own style manual in which American spellings are correct, but "quotes like this are not." English Wikipedia (yes, I know we're not them, but still) elects to use fluid spelling rules, but their quotation marks use what is referred to as "logical quotation", which is what is defined as "British" above. This is okay, because it is defined in their style guide, even though they aren't unquestionably using other "British" guidelines for other things. This quotation argument is a lot less connected to any country than a spelling argument would be.
...So I guess (and my preference is the second suggestion in the poll) I'm saying the best way to deal with this is for the wiki to use its own style guide, because then it can use what it thinks is best (by consensus from discussions like this one, obviously) from any of a variety of styles and guidelines.
ETA: Also, as a general statement, since I saw this in one of the pages I linked above: "many American style guides explicitly permit periods and commas outside the quotation marks when the presence of the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks will lead to ambiguity". One could argue that including the period in something like quotes around an episode name, which is not a sentence but could theoretically include a period, might lead to ambiguity for those who don't know the episode name from anything but that quotation. (But on that note, one could argue alternatively that non-LQ guidelines being the default doesn't mean that every instance of the episode in quotes will have punctuation and therefore, it isn't complicated to glean the episode's actual name from what is presented to the end-user. Yeah.)
I can't say I agree with creating our own style guide. Simply preferring to use the logical quotation does not address the issue of a generally established precedent in American grammar. Most published books, magazine articles, journals, widely used American style guides (APA, MLA, Chicago, etc.) use the "American" method. Of course grammar is fluid and can change, but most Americans who are familiar with grammar rules will see this formatting and think it unprofessional. There is also still the issue with having to change formatting etc. surrounding the large quotations when/if we change to the "logical" quotation. If I could change a generally established precedent and wave a magic grammar wand, I would prefer the "British" rule, but because I cannot I am opposed.
(Edited by Blumenblatt)
1
I am from Britain myself, and I have made some mistakes by using british spellings on American websites countless times, but if we were to stop using the American/Simplified english, we would have to make quite a lot of changes to the many pages of the wikia.
Look, if you can read it in English on a website that speaks english as the primary lanuage, then it should be perfectly fine. Should it not?
(Edited by GoopHug)
Blumenblatt wrote:
Citrusellaeditswikis wrote:
Blumenblatt wrote: Steven Universe is an American show, so I believe it's proper to use consistent American grammar and style. I agree that a period outside the quotation marks makes more logical sense for many reasons; however, American grammar does not style it that way. If we change to "this". instead of "this." we'll also have to convert to British spellings for the sake of consistency. That's a mess I would rather not start. Regardless of how many votes this gets, consider that British grammar is not just a personal preference surrounding quotation marks.
I would also like to add that if the wiki places the period outside the quotation marks, the formatting for quotations on character pages will have to change. Those big quotes will look ridiculous with a small dangling period outside of them.
Well, no. "American" grammar has more to do with the style manual you're using (though "end-sentence quotes like this one." do tend to be the standard). Perhaps the wiki should come up with its own style manual in which American spellings are correct, but "quotes like this are not." English Wikipedia (yes, I know we're not them, but still) elects to use fluid spelling rules, but their quotation marks use what is referred to as "logical quotation", which is what is defined as "British" above. This is okay, because it is defined in their style guide, even though they aren't unquestionably using other "British" guidelines for other things. This quotation argument is a lot less connected to any country than a spelling argument would be.
...So I guess (and my preference is the second suggestion in the poll) I'm saying the best way to deal with this is for the wiki to use its own style guide, because then it can use what it thinks is best (by consensus from discussions like this one, obviously) from any of a variety of styles and guidelines.
ETA: Also, as a general statement, since I saw this in one of the pages I linked above: "many American style guides explicitly permit periods and commas outside the quotation marks when the presence of the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks will lead to ambiguity". One could argue that including the period in something like quotes around an episode name, which is not a sentence but could theoretically include a period, might lead to ambiguity for those who don't know the episode name from anything but that quotation. (But on that note, one could argue alternatively that non-LQ guidelines being the default doesn't mean that every instance of the episode in quotes will have punctuation and therefore, it isn't complicated to glean the episode's actual name from what is presented to the end-user. Yeah.)
I can't say I agree with creating our own style guide. Simply preferring to use the logical quotation does not address the issue of a generally established precedent in American grammar. Most published books, magazine articles, journals, widely used American style guides (APA, MLA, Chicago, etc.) use the "American" method. Of course grammar is fluid and can change, but most Americans who are familiar with grammar rules will see this formatting and think it unprofessional. There is also still the issue with having to change formatting etc. surrounding the large quotations when/if we change to the "logical" quotation. If I could change a generally established precedent and wave a magic grammar wand, I would prefer the "British" rule, but because I cannot I am opposed.
Hmm... I'm not sure (without proof) that "most" Americans familiar with grammar rules would think it unprofessional (I'm a pretty methodical person and like the clear-cut "this is what happened" that proof provides)... though I do think when I made the post that I did gloss over some inherent issues with an official or unofficial style guide/manual (e.g. people not knowing about about it, people not reading it, people refusing to follow it, instruction creep, updating much of the wiki to meet it if it and the wiki aren't already matched up, etc.). Some of these can be alleviated, but there are still a lot of inherent issues. I'm not saying the wiki necessarily SHOULD make its own style guide; I just thought at the time that perhaps it would be the best way to include "best practices" type things from different schools of thought on grammar.
TL;DR: I think I'm just confusing myself now... but I do see your point.
(Edited by Citrusellaeditswikis)
Regardless, I think the poll result speak for itself at this point.
(Edited by Strong In The Real Way)
1
seriously guys... it really doesn't affect much... I can still absorb what I just read regardless of grammar... =3=
(Edited by ApplePy)
KurisuPy wrote:
seriously guys... it really doesn't affect much... I can still absorb what I just read regardless of grammar... =3=
seriously guys... it really doesn't affect much... I can still absorb what I just read regardless of grammar... =3=
well it's important, so users will know what style they could use
in order to avoid conflicts
(Edited by Perlen297)
The answer will never change.
(Edited by Chris Cat)
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
(Edited by Reindeer King)
1
Reindeer King wrote:
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
Reindeer King wrote:
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
Reindeer King wrote:
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
Reindeer King wrote:
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
Slow internet?
Putting periods/full stops and other marks outside quotaion marks isn't exactly universal proper grammar. Grammar changes with each language and American English and British English, though quite similar, aren't exactly the same.
(Edited by Iudexkoo)
Judgekoo wrote:
Reindeer King wrote:
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
Reindeer King wrote:
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
Reindeer King wrote:
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
Reindeer King wrote:
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
im an american and i put the period out side of the quotations... It's universal proper grammar. A period is the end of a sentence or a thought, so yes, someitmes a period can be inside a quotation. But if it's the end of the sentence and the quotation inside said sentence then the period is on the outside of the quotation
Slow internet?
Putting periods/full stops and other marks outside quotaion marks isn't exactly universal proper grammar. Grammar changes with each language and American English and British English, though quite similar, aren't exactly the same.
that's true... and yes, slow wifi. i have no idea why it posted like 5 times though >.>
(Edited by Reindeer King)