SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
honestly tell me one thing that's good about those, because i can tell you what's bad
comments - as simple as scrolling to the bottom of a page and saying something
forums - have to be titled, require pointless categorization, you have to scroll through like 50 things to get to them, and to add insult to injury give you these annoying notification blurbs
discord - now this one, ohhhhh this one, where do i even begin
1. requires another account
2. completely different formatting
3. NOTHING like wiki comments, the comparison is simply absurd
I have made two YouTube videos comparing the experience between making an Article Comment on the Undertale Wiki (same thing as here) and making a forum post, since I disagree in that these flaws are not as horrible as they sound.
What does the Article Comments video show? It shows that, from the main page, we are to click on a link going to an article page, scroll down the article, click the empty box or reply button on an existing comment, type the comment, and there it is.
What does the forums video show? It shows that, from the main page, we are to click the "forums" button, click the board topic to post in, click the "start a discussion" part, enter a short title, enter the text (could just be "title"), and there it is.
The experience is not as different and complicated as it's claimed to be.
The videos also demonstrate the capabilities of each feature. The Article Comments require less, making them slightly more convenient to use than Forums, which requires a title. However, because Article Comments require less, it has less than Forums. Here is what Forums can do, which I already stated in New Year, New Wiki:
- You can unfollow threads you don't want notifications from. Article Comments doesn't allow you to unfollow specific threads. You can only unfollow the page with the Article Comments or follow the page and receive everything about Shep, for example. You probably just want official art, not in-depth discussions, so forth. Article Comments cannot do that.
- You can sort forum threads in different ways to better help a user search for a topic of interest, trending status, and so forth. Article Comments do not do this, so if you want to search for a specific comment or topic, you have to bear this in mind.
- Much like Article Comments, Forums also appears at the bottom of articles. This is because, as you mentioned, of topics being categorised, such as Steven Universe (character) in the above picture. The result is that the relevant topics appear on Steven's page, so it's not "pointless". Sure, you have to move your mouse over to the box and type the name of something you're talking about so not to confuse users, but it isn't a requirement and is up to you to make your post visible (but you say that you don't want to start discussions). Forum replicates Article Comments sufficiently, though not exactly.
- Though a niche benefit, Forum posts can be searched for on Google or other search engines. Maybe you couldn't find a thread or comment through normal means. As a last resort, Google can help. This is not possible for Article Comments, as Google does not index them. Thus, if you can't find the comment or topic you want through Wiki means, then even Google can't help you.
We'll now move on to Discord and the mentioned flaws about it.
- requires another account: This is perfectly legitimate criticism that was also mentioned when the wiki chat itself closed in another vote thread. If Discord is to replicate the chat, then it should not require another account. Unfortunately, it's complicated. Discord allows guest accounts to join, so one does not need to sign up to participate. The server doesn't allow this, though, because of the vulnerability it creates for trolls to disrupt the server constantly. The server once had to ask for you to link your wiki account with your Discord account to prove your identity, but this has since been scrapped. I'll talk to the mods about potential alternatives, since Fandom Staff themselves moved to Discord and set up operations accordingly. Other than that, though, is creating a new account that big of a deal?
- completely different formatting: The Wiki uses Wikitext, while Discord uses Markdown. While they are different formats, their purpose is the same: to enhance one's ability to communicate. You can bold messages to make emphasis, quote people in readable ways, and so forth. Besides text, there is also the way the interface looks (comparison: Discord vs Article Comments). Discord offers channels for different topics to the left, a user list to the right, and the messages in the middle with a box at the bottom, all on one screen with minimal scrolling to find everything. Article Comments offers messages which one can touch/hover over and reply to, and you'll need to find a different page to comment about another character or topic elsewhere. Despite these differences, the way people can make a comment is the same: Touch the specific area, type the comment, and post it for others to see. Thus, even if Discord and Article Comments have different formatting, each serve the same purpose, with one serving the purpose much better, objectively speaking.
SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
4. many people (such as myself) already use discord for more important things and don't want their server directories clouded with random dribble, which is why i get pretty freaking tired of every website and community spouting JOIN OUR DISCORD. no, the answer is and will forever and always be no, and i would appreciate if community websites would keep the community TO THAT WEBSITE
We'll agree to disagree, then, so you don't have to read the rest of this response.
There is a reason that Discord is being used more often, however, and the benefits provided cannot be ignored. Conveniently, Discord offers a feature where you can combine different servers into folders, thus organizing the list. One folder (nor no folder) will contain servers you actually care about, and another folder will contain "random dribble", and how Discord is used will see minimal visible changes, let alone usage changes. Even then, it's a matter of if you think the Steven Universe Wiki Discord is random dribble or another way to get into the community. It's up to you, but how Discord is used is in no way an actual flaw of Discord.
SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
the discord server is what i'm frankly insulted by the implication of replacing Article Comments, that's like taking a kid's phone and saying "oh just talk to your friends at school", complete and utter bullcrap
I am aware of the real-world science that makes your quoted suggestion completely reasonable, but science is not the topic here. The analogy would more be like telling you to stop using MySpace and use Facebook instead. They're completely different sites, where the latter is more capable than the other, even if less convenient to muscle memory and niche preference. You're still able to communicate in the exact same way, but only in a different space on the internet. The problem is that Facebook is not exactly like MySpace.
SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
my suggestions for how forums should be improved (although unfortunately i don't know if all of these are options to the staff of individual wikis, i apologize if they aren't, that is unfortunate)
1. make titles optional, with the default title of, like, "Talkpage: Blue Lace Agate" or something along those lines
2. remove the annoying categories unless for something important like votes or wiki management
3. have notifications set to off by default, stop auto-following threads when commented on
again, i apologize if not all of these are options, they should be, but if not then that's the site staff's problem not yours'
1. I don't believe this is possible for us to do. We can contact Fandom Staff and see what could be done. However, from my observations and youtube videos above, it's not a high priority issue.
2. You don't have to categorise forum posts. The benefit categorisation gives is making it easier for people to search by topic. Your thread could be isolated if you wish. It's not hard to categorise threads anyway, from my observation.
3. I don't believe this is possible, and yes, I would like this to be a feature in Special:Preferences especially. You can let Fandom Staff know if you wish. If you'd like an unofficial way, then then Fandom Developers Wiki might work out something.
DetectiveAquamarine wrote:
Personally, I really don’t like the Discord! I wanted to like if, I really did, but it just bugged me. The constant swearing was a major factor, as well as the fact one comment could be completely lost in the matter of seconds.
It was just frustrating for me, and I have no interest in joining again.
I'm sorry to hear this. Indeed, the Discord server does allow swearing (in moderation), so that can be offensive to some users, and I may bring that up to other staff for a potential solution. I will say, though, that your comment won't usually be lost in a matter of seconds. I said this on the New Year New Wiki thread already, but the server is not that fast. The only places are #general and #sutalk with new episodes. Otherwise, the server is similar to Article Comments and Forum threads being lost to time, which is inevitable.
SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
>anyone (over 13) can edit
unrelated but this law is a violation of freedom and should be gone, i should be free to parent my children how i want and i don't exactly want to raise sheltered snowflakes so they'll be on the internet if i say they will
I am aware of the science as to why this law exists, but talking about it would require me to dump my uni textbooks to perfectly explain why those under 13 aren't supposed to be on data-collecting websites. This is not to say your parenting isn't going to be good, but we cannot ignore the reason why this exists as a law in the U.S. (the law targets stupid people which there are too many of, not people like you).
It's just another example where there are many reasons and perspectives to consider, and decisions are then seen in a new light.