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  • Sharayna
    Sharayna closed this thread because:
    07:03, February 24, 2020

    Hello everyone!

    As you may or may not have noticed, there have been a few new changes to the wikia! We're hoping to keep the wiki fresh and interesting as well as up to date with newer, more relevant content from the shows.

    The new theme is still a work in progress and is most likely subject to change over the coming month or so, so please stay tuned and offer some feedback!


    In addition to the visual update, there has been a drastic change moving forwards; comment sections have been disabled for articles. It's very unfortunate that it has come to this, but as of late a vast majority of the comments found on article pages have been mean spirited in regards to an aspect of a character's identity such as gender. We would like to make it vehemently clear that debates regarding biological sex, gender or sexuality are not appropriate for the wiki or the potential young users that use it.

    Moving forwards, if you have a question or edit that you wish to be made or considered, please contact an admin or content moderator on their message walls or on the Ask the Staff board.


    Ultimately, wiki is primarily a source of information on its dedicated topic and we urge you to either use the wiki's Discord server or the forums for discussion from now on.

    Happy new Year!

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    • hey, the forums will become discussions soon. so you might wanna edit that.

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    • Happy new year!

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    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:36, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • But what about all the pictures and renders/edits people put in the comments? What'll happen to those if what they were posted on doesn't exist anymore?

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    • Happy new year!

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    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:42, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:42, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:43, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:43, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:43, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:43, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:43, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Eh I don't mind about article comments being disabled, I got tired of seeing people arguing about Pink Diamond's character if she's "very bad" or "flawless".

      Anyways, the new design is nice. Gonna take time to get well adjusted. :)

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    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:45, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Now yes, I get tired of people talking about how flawless PD is or talking about Shep's bio sex and so on and so forth but most of the comments were fine, so why do we need to remove all comments on all articles?

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    • FreeSpirit98 wrote:
      Eh I don't mind about article comments being disabled, I got tired of seeing people arguing about Pink Diamond's character if she's "very bad" or "flawless".

      Anyways, the new design is nice. Gonna take time to get well adjusted. :)

      Also about Shep and the Lars x Sadie ship debate. Glad there is order!

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    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      23:48, January 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • I Agree

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    • TheNinjaOnTheTop wrote:
      Now yes, I get tired of people talking about how flawless PD is or talking about Shep's bio sex and so on and so forth but most of the comments were fine, so why do we need to remove all comments on all articles?

      I still like PD but I'm not denying she was very flawed. I don't like the removal of comments either.

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    • The removal of comments seems kind of silly, to be honest.

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    • This isn't the logo wiki were makes snice to no comments anyways aren't we change logo

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    • Too bad about the comments. Gonna be hard to share the healthier opinions now.

      Why not just delete the old ones and start fresh, or is it expected that it'll just automatically happen again?

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    • Another primary reason we are disabling comments is to hopefully push discussion towards the discord server where it's a lot easier to have engaging discussion in real time or the forums that support conversation better

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    • Oh

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    • Sharayna wrote:
      Another primary reason we are disabling comments is to hopefully push discussion towards the discord server where it's a lot easier to have engaging discussion in real time

      So to talk about stuff I have to join a server that I'm not interested in joining? No offense but do you realize how stupid that sounds?

      Okay, I'll try to explain my reasonings calmly: I think removing comments is a huge overreaction. You explain it's because of conversations that are harmful to the wiki and/or its users but why not stop those specific conversations and explain to the participants of said discussion that it is harmful to talk about the subject? Because believe it or not, most people don't know when they're being harmful to others; they aren't purposefully trying to be malicious so telling them and explaining why to them is the best bet to get those conversations to stop and if they persist and continue to talk about harmful subjects fully knowing they're harmful...then just ban them. I don't see why we are getting rid of every single discussion because of a few bad eggs that probably don't even know they're being bad eggs.

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    • This ^^

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    • TheNinjaOnTheTop wrote:
      Sharayna wrote:
      Another primary reason we are disabling comments is to hopefully push discussion towards the discord server where it's a lot easier to have engaging discussion in real time
      So to talk about stuff I have to join a server that I'm not interested in joining? No offense but do you realize how stupid that sounds?

      Okay, I'll try to explain my reasonings calmly: I think removing comments is a huge overreaction. You explain it's because of conversations that are harmful to the wiki and/or its users but why not stop those specific conversations and explain to the participants of said discussion that it is harmful to talk about the subject? Because believe it or not, most people don't know when they're being harmful to others; they aren't purposefully trying to be malicious so telling them and explaining why to them is the best bet to get those conversations to stop and if they persist and continue to talk about harmful subjects fully knowing they're harmful...then just ban them. I don't see why we are getting rid of every single discussion because of a few bad eggs that probably don't even know they're being bad eggs.

      👍👍👍👍👍

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    • ... I feel like there’s nothing to do now.

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    • I mean, isn't this wiki run by the community. Make enough protest, and they'll have to re enable the comments, right?

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    • I WANT the comments reopened, but REALLY!? ya'll will just get a warning or ban. *facepalm*

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    • What if you don't have a Discord ?

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    • Aw man, I’m gonna miss the comments. But yeah, it doesn’t matter what Shep’s bio sex is, Shep is nonbinary and they are valid

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    • Well yea Happy New Year everyone. I don't get this meeting.

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    • I know there's away around having Discord and its called the chat on the logo wiki although you do searsh it as logopedia it dates to 2009 and also works in real time

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    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      01:50, January 2, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Finally, article comments are disabled, it's so hurting to see toxic comments.

      Tbh, I don't see any point on reopening comments because you have Forums. Have yall even ever thought that?

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    • Not everyone has a Discord

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    • Couldn't you have just removed all the toxic comments on Shep's page instead of removing article comments altogether? Not every page has bad comments.

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    • Theweathercat2002 wrote: Not everyone has a Discord

      Forums exist too

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    • Fangirl227 wrote: Couldn't you have just removed all the toxic comments on Shep's page instead of removing article comments altogether? Not every page has bad comments.

      They wouldn't have to waste their new year in just removing those because they'll keep on coming.

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    • Not using Discord. This is a silly overeaction but maybe it’ll be good for me y’know? I have to start focusing on my passion, having to constantly check for new comments is a distraction

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    • I'm gonna assume that the removed replies are backlash. 

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    • The removed replies are from off-topic comments! Reminder to everyone to please keep the threads on topic :)

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    • Who would win:

      An entire community

      or

      One non-binary boi

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    • Ah, thank you. While I personally don't ENJOY this change, I see the necessity.

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    • Happy New Year!!

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    • OwOmasterlunarae wrote: hey, the forums will become discussions soon. so you might wanna edit that.

      While Discussions will eventually replace Forums, that doesn't mean an alternative is impossible. There is also the Discord.

      Crossover Enthusiast wrote: But what about all the pictures and renders/edits people put in the comments? What'll happen to those if what they were posted on doesn't exist anymore?

      They still exist on the wiki, especially in Special:Images. You'll just need to search for it in Special:Search and hope the uploaded files have good names (which we have encouraged you to do for a long time in Project:Regulations but still see random letters and numbers in filenames).

      Dark Boss 7 wrote: ... I feel like there’s nothing to do now.

      There is plenty to do. You can visit Special:Forums. You can visit the Discord Server. You can contribute edits to the wiki articles.

      Theweathercat2002 wrote: What if you don't have a Discord ?

      Discord is free, more mobile-friendly than Wikia, can be used in a browser or downloaded to desktop or mobile, and is given better treatment by the wiki staff than article comments. The only negative is signing up to another service (though much of the wiki network has switched from Special:Chat to Discord, including Community Central).

      TheNinjaOnTheTop wrote: Now yes, I get tired of people talking about how flawless PD is or talking about Shep's bio sex and so on and so forth but most of the comments were fine, so why do we need to remove all comments on all articles?

      RavenHeartQuest wrote: The removal of comments seems kind of silly, to be honest.

      TD-Follower wrote: Too bad about the comments. Gonna be hard to share the healthier opinions now.

      Why not just delete the old ones and start fresh, or is it expected that it'll just automatically happen again?

      Disclaimer: This is my opinion, not the actual reason (see Sharayna). There are a few reasons I like the decision:

      1. Article Comments aren't the only way to discuss stuff on the wiki. Special:Forum exists. The Discord exists. Talkpages exist. Communication has not been shut down as a result of disabling comments. The only inconvenience is history now being archived (not lost; enabling the comments again will restore the comments).
      2. Article Comments is just another place to moderate for bad activity. It would make sense to combine communications into fewer spaces, as it means less places to consider and moderate while being just as effective in enforcing regulations. Furthermore, Article Comments are just a place where people can easily talk about a specific character. This can already be done on Special:Forum with the topic categorisation system. Please use it.
      3. Article Comments do not encourage people to keep discussion subjects under one space. You may have noticed, but the Shep gender discussions had people commenting as parent (OP comment; comment is not indented) or child (replies) on the exact same thing, which constantly repeats over and over. This causes a page to be flooded with the exact same thing when someone might want to talk about something else but is shy on starting one. The forums encourages discussion to be relevant to one thread under a title, such as this one, so people interested and uninterested know from a single glance where to go. The result is a cleaner and more organised section for discussions. The Discord also allows this with different channels like "su-art" and "suggestions", to name a few.

      There are some things I question as well about removing article comments. For example, would the removal of comments be indicative of something worse, like the previous wiki state being out of control? Were there other unnameable instances of bad comment use? Yes. Could there have been a better response? Possibly. Will article comments return? Possibly. As of now, however, I feel that the decision to remove comments (again, opinion) is a step in the right direction and isn't an overreaction.

      Theweathercat2002 wrote: I know there's away around having Discord --

      As I said above, Discord is completely free, can be used without downloading on a browser or with downloading, is heavily supported by wiki staff, and is more mobile-friendly. Meanwhile, the wiki chat is less supported, has not been updated since 2013 on any wiki (I'm serious), and has many bugs that, for example, can cause people to willingly crash chats and ruin everyone's time. The Discord is an upgrade, and the only inconvenience is registering for another account.

      StereoTitan877 wrote:

      Fangirl227 wrote: Couldn't you have just removed all the toxic comments on Shep's page instead of removing article comments altogether? Not every page has bad comments.

      They wouldn't have to waste their new year in just removing those because they'll keep on coming.

      Exactly correct. Removing comments does nothing so long as they continue to return. Moderation proves difficult especially if there are multiple places to check. As stated above, combining communications into one space would allow more time and focus.

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: Not using Discord. This is a silly overeaction but maybe it’ll be good for me y’know? I have to start focusing on my passion, having to constantly check for new comments is a distraction

      You have the choice whether to use Discord, Forums, or other forms of communication like Reddit. However, do give them a try. It could change your mind? It's ultimately up to you, since communication is just as possible as before but with one less place to do so.

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    • Happy New Year Everyone! :)

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    • Happy New Year!

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    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      OwOmasterlunarae wrote: hey, the forums will become discussions soon. so you might wanna edit that.

      While Discussions will eventually replace Forums, that doesn't mean an alternative is impossible. There is also the Discord.

      Crossover Enthusiast wrote: But what about all the pictures and renders/edits people put in the comments? What'll happen to those if what they were posted on doesn't exist anymore?

      They still exist on the wiki, especially in Special:Images. You'll just need to search for it in Special:Search and hope the uploaded files have good names (which we have encouraged you to do for a long time in Project:Regulations but still see random letters and numbers in filenames).

      Dark Boss 7 wrote: ... I feel like there’s nothing to do now.

      There is plenty to do. You can visit Special:Forums. You can visit the Discord Server. You can contribute edits to the wiki articles.

      Theweathercat2002 wrote: What if you don't have a Discord ?

      Discord is free, more mobile-friendly than Wikia, can be used in a browser or downloaded to desktop or mobile, and is given better treatment by the wiki staff than article comments. The only negative is signing up to another service (though much of the wiki network has switched from Special:Chat to Discord, including Community Central).

      TheNinjaOnTheTop wrote: Now yes, I get tired of people talking about how flawless PD is or talking about Shep's bio sex and so on and so forth but most of the comments were fine, so why do we need to remove all comments on all articles?

      RavenHeartQuest wrote: The removal of comments seems kind of silly, to be honest.

      TD-Follower wrote: Too bad about the comments. Gonna be hard to share the healthier opinions now.

      Why not just delete the old ones and start fresh, or is it expected that it'll just automatically happen again?

      Disclaimer: This is my opinion, not the actual reason (see Sharayna). There are a few reasons I like the decision:

      1. Article Comments aren't the only way to discuss stuff on the wiki. Special:Forum exists. The Discord exists. Talkpages exist. Communication has not been shut down as a result of disabling comments. The only inconvenience is history now being archived (not lost; enabling the comments again will restore the comments).
      2. Article Comments is just another place to moderate for bad activity. It would make sense to combine communications into fewer spaces, as it means less places to consider and moderate while being just as effective in enforcing regulations. Furthermore, Article Comments are just a place where people can easily talk about a specific character. This can already be done on Special:Forum with the topic categorisation system. Please use it.
      3. Article Comments do not encourage people to keep discussion subjects under one space. You may have noticed, but the Shep gender discussions had people commenting as parent (OP comment; comment is not indented) or child (replies) on the exact same thing, which constantly repeats over and over. This causes a page to be flooded with the exact same thing when someone might want to talk about something else but is shy on starting one. The forums encourages discussion to be relevant to one thread under a title, such as this one, so people interested and uninterested know from a single glance where to go. The result is a cleaner and more organised section for discussions. The Discord also allows this with different channels like "su-art" and "suggestions", to name a few.

      There are some things I question as well about removing article comments. For example, would the removal of comments be indicative of something worse, like the previous wiki state being out of control? Were there other unnameable instances of bad comment use? Yes. Could there have been a better response? Possibly. Will article comments return? Possibly. As of now, however, I feel that the decision to remove comments (again, opinion) is a step in the right direction and isn't an overreaction.

      Theweathercat2002 wrote: I know there's away around having Discord --

      As I said above, Discord is completely free, can be used without downloading on a browser or with downloading, is heavily supported by wiki staff, and is more mobile-friendly. Meanwhile, the wiki chat is less supported, has not been updated since 2013 on any wiki (I'm serious), and has many bugs that, for example, can cause people to willingly crash chats and ruin everyone's time. The Discord is an upgrade, and the only inconvenience is registering for another account.

      StereoTitan877 wrote:

      Fangirl227 wrote: Couldn't you have just removed all the toxic comments on Shep's page instead of removing article comments altogether? Not every page has bad comments.

      They wouldn't have to waste their new year in just removing those because they'll keep on coming.

      Exactly correct. Removing comments does nothing so long as they continue to return. Moderation proves difficult especially if there are multiple places to check. As stated above, combining communications into one space would allow more time and focus.

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: Not using Discord. This is a silly overeaction but maybe it’ll be good for me y’know? I have to start focusing on my passion, having to constantly check for new comments is a distraction

      You have the choice whether to use Discord, Forums, or other forms of communication like Reddit. However, do give them a try. It could change your mind? It's ultimately up to you, since communication is just as possible as before but with one less place to do so.

      I was perforing Logopedia's chat room witch pre-dates Discord by four years and is Live! Chat as that way around Discord

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    • Hello, long time user here, removing comments just due to a few bad apples does not seem like a valid reason. A majority of the comments are on topic, people sharing thoughts on the characters or others. Personally i feel this is too drastic of a change for this wiki. As the article pages are the most visited sections it's the best place for discussions as the forums sections hardly get used in other wikis except for larger discussions. I just feel this isn't the right move but respect your decision, i do wish there was a more public vote that everyone could have had a say in.

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    • Manaboy223 wrote:
      Hello, long time user here, removing comments just due to a few bad apples does not seem like a valid reason. A majority of the comments are on topic, people sharing thoughts on the characters or others. Personally i feel this is too drastic of a change for this wiki. As the article pages are the most visited sections it's the best place for discussions as the forums sections hardly get used in other wikis except for larger discussions. I just feel this isn't the right move but respect your decision, i do wish there was a more public vote that everyone could have had a say in.

      Why wait? Let's start one now, they really wouldn't have much choice but to listen to the community, as this is (supposedly) a community run wiki, right? If the wiki users really feel as they want comments back, then to bad for the mods, cause their not the (only) ones using it, and the majority votes they should be enabled. If the majority votes they should stay disabled, well, I guess we're stuck.

      Sorry if th​is was unintentionally offensive to any mods, or was incorrect in any way. I'm just using what I know about how this wiki is run, and making an opinion based on that.

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    • Even though I started a war beteen this fandom and Granada television without knowing so not everyone start a war with a ITV regional franchise with or without knowing it removing comments will stop others from starting wars with ITV franchises but I now what I did was wrong but this is bit to much even for me

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    • There are ways to disable comments on targeted articles without disabling the entire feature.

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    • Won't future logo fans who are also into this franchise see the wiki as a Logopedia copycat

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    • KameronDoughty wrote:
      Manaboy223 wrote:
      Hello, long time user here, removing comments just due to a few bad apples does not seem like a valid reason. A majority of the comments are on topic, people sharing thoughts on the characters or others. Personally i feel this is too drastic of a change for this wiki. As the article pages are the most visited sections it's the best place for discussions as the forums sections hardly get used in other wikis except for larger discussions. I just feel this isn't the right move but respect your decision, i do wish there was a more public vote that everyone could have had a say in.
      Why wait? Let's start one now, they really wouldn't have much choice but to listen to the community, as this is (supposedly) a community run wiki, right? If the wiki users really feel as they want comments back, then to bad for the mods, cause their not the (only) ones using it, and the majority votes they should be enabled. If the majority votes they should stay disabled, well, I guess we're stuck.

      Sorry if th​is was unintentionally offensive to any mods, or was incorrect in any way. I'm just using what I know about how this wiki is run, and making an opinion based on that.

      This is my opinion too, the community decides, if the majority wants comments enabled, the comments should be enabled. This is by fans for fans, by the community for the community. I think everyone should be able to comment, and deleting the comments isn't going to stop hate for some characters. I think you can block them, delete tbeir comments or something like that, but deleting the comments isn't a good solution. If the community doesn't like and don't want the comments back, well don't add the comments. But right now the people on this wiki want the comments back.

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    • To qute BBC 2 and away it goes forever

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    • KameronDoughty wrote: Why wait? Let's start one now, they really wouldn't have much choice but to listen to the community, as this is (supposedly) a community run wiki, right? If the wiki users really feel as they want comments back, then to bad for the mods, cause their not the (only) ones using it, and the majority votes they should be enabled. If the majority votes they should stay disabled, well, I guess we're stuck.

      Sorry if th​is was unintentionally offensive to any mods, or was incorrect in any way. I'm just using what I know about how this wiki is run, and making an opinion based on that.

      Feel free. We're not offended. Do note, though, that wiki staff reserve the right to void any vote or voting option for any reason at any time (Voting Policy). It's a community-based wiki, but that doesn't mean it's equivalent to a democracy or anarchist society. If the majority were to support allowing vandalism on the wiki, the staff will simply void that vote.

      Of course, this doesn't predict whether a vote on bringing article comments back will be void. It just says that staff retain the right to void it for any reason at any time. I personally recommend waiting to see what it's like without the comments before making hasty judgments.

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    • While it may not be fully democratic, it is still a Fandom run project, you're not really giving many people a choice on whether seeing how it goes without comments, you've already made that decision without consulting the community that follows your pages. I'm not telling you how to run the wiki, but if a vote decides whether an image is changed on an article page or not than the same should apply to an article's comment section. That's my two cents on the matter.

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    • Manaboy223 wrote: While it may not be fully democratic, it is still a Fandom run project, you're not really giving many people a choice on whether seeing how it goes without comments, you've already made that decision without consulting the community that follows your pages. I'm not telling you how to run the wiki, but if a vote decides whether an image is changed on an article page or not than the same should apply to an article's comment section. That's my two cents on the matter.

      Indeed, perhaps it should have been notified first to the community a bit earlier that comments will be going away. That is why Sharayna has reminded people in the announcement to contact the moderators or use the Ask The Staff board (and also this thread for general discussion) about their concerns and questions.

      While the decision has been made, comments are still being read and considered (by me, at least). I am just here to remind people of the positives regarding this event, the alternatives available, and what they should expect. The article comments may appear to be a big loss, but I'm here to reassure that it is not. Regardless, your concerns are valid, and I'll be answering them to the best of my ability.

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    • HNY guys!

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    • Happy New Year!

      But, seriously, I really don’t agree with the removal of comments. Discord is great for communicating, but, if I’m being honest, the article comments were a large appeal of this wiki for me. With the removal, to me, it feels less like a community, if you’re saying the only way we can have something similar is to get Discord; something a lot of people are not going to get. Now, it more or less feels like something I don’t want to spend a lot of time on.

      It just seems like the update was a bit of an overreaction. What if you just removed all the comments on the articles with the most controversy, and if the toxicity kept coming, just delete the comments. It’s not like a majority of the wiki members are being rude on purpose.

      While the wiki isn’t entirely democratic, I still think the users should’ve known about this ahead of time, so we could get a say in the matter previously; so we could all discuss if it was a good idea.

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    • Sharayna wrote:
      Hello everyone!

      As you may or may not have noticed, there have been a few new changes to the wikia! We're hoping to keep the wiki fresh and interesting as well as up to date with newer, more relevant content from the shows.

      The new theme is still a work in progress and is most likely subject to change over the coming month or so, so please stay tuned and offer some feedback!


      In addition to the visual update, there has been a drastic change moving forwards; comment sections have been disabled for articles. It's very unfortunate that it has come to this, but as of late a vast majority of the comments found on article pages have been mean spirited in regards to an aspect of a character's identity such as gender. We would like to make it vehemently clear that debates regarding biological sex, gender or sexuality are not appropriate for the wiki or the potential young users that use it.

      Moving forwards, if you have a question or edit that you wish to be made or considered, please contact an admin or content moderator on their message walls or on the Ask the Staff board.


      Ultimately, wiki is primarily a source of information on its dedicated topic and we urge you to either use the wiki's Discord server or the forums for discussion from now on.

      Happy new Year!

      I'm sad to see comments removed from articles, but otherwise I think the changes are good.

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote:
      Happy New Year!

      But, seriously, I really don’t agree with the removal of comments. Discord is great for communicating, but, if I’m being honest, the article comments were a large appeal of this wiki for me. With the removal, to me, it feels less like a community, if you’re saying the only way we can have something similar is to get Discord; something a lot of people are not going to get. Now, it more or less feels like something I don’t want to spend a lot of time on.

      It just seems like the update was a bit of an overreaction. What if you just removed all the comments on the articles with the most controversy, and if the toxicity kept coming, just delete the comments. It’s not like a majority of the wiki members are being rude on purpose.

      While the wiki isn’t entirely democratic, I still think the users should’ve known about this ahead of time, so we could get a say in the matter previously; so we could all discuss if it was a good idea.

      Couldn't have said it better myself.

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote: f you’re saying the only way we can have something similar is to get Discord; something a lot of people are not going to get. Now, it more or less feels like something I don’t want to spend a lot of time on.

      It just seems like the update was a bit of an overreaction. What if you just removed all the comments on the articles with the most controversy, and if the toxicity kept coming, just delete the comments. It’s not like a majority of the wiki members are being rude on purpose.

      While the wiki isn’t entirely democratic, I still think the users should’ve known about this ahead of time, so we could get a say in the matter previously; so we could all discuss if it was a good idea.

      1. You don't have to get the Discord. As I mentioned in my above comments, you have Special:Forum. I do wonder, though. What would be the reason that many people don't want to get Discord?

      2. I do agree that most wiki users don't intend to cause harm (though some have and were blocked for intentionally trying to cause mayhem). However, while the comments could be removed, deleted, and people blocked from blocking, this simply would not stop the comments from coming anyway. It would be a daily chore to constantly clean the comments of the same toxicity over and over. As another user mentioned, yes, there is a way to disable comments just for one article page. However, similar comments would also occur on Stevonnie and Smoky as a result of they/them pronouns, along with similar toxic discourse on Rainbow 2.0 and Sunstone. Similar comments would occur with future characters as well, especially if the majority opinion on Shep being a "mary sue" is true and other flawed characters come around. The result is that, rather than having another place for moderators to look, those comments may as well go either to Discord or the forums. At least then, there are less places to monitor, and discourse would be more organised. If there's a consideration I missed, let me know.

      3. I do agree with this, though I also feel that the discussion would be the exact same as it is now.

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    • This is severely depressing. Like seriously, are the admins going to do this without even giving us a warning or letting us state our own opinions? Like, you guys don't even seem to care how the users feel and forcing others to go to discord isn't right. I've read the admins comments, and it's disturbing to see this on a wiki page. It's an act of censorship to me. Why is it so hard to either delete coments or block users? Are you guys getting lazy or something, or just don't want to be admins anymore? This place is suppose to be a community, not a censored site. Yes, it is kid friendly, and people shouldn't talk about certain things, but closing comments is wrong. You might as well close topics too. Honestly, it feels like you guys are being lazy, and this seems to be proven from a comment above. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but this is very silly, and it's sad to see this wiki is becomming like EA. Basically you are punishing people because of a few bad eggs. 

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    • As mentioned above, the main reason for disabling comments wasn't to make everyone use discord, and there is more than discord that you can use to talk with people.

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    • Sophiedp
      Sophiedp removed this reply because:
      reposted as #71
      09:14, January 2, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Were the comments that bad when it came to gender, like Shep's character? I didn't read them. If they were that bad, then maybe I'll change my mind because I didn't think people would say things horrid things about a non binary character when it came to Steven Universe

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    • I'd really like to reiterate that comments being removed are NOT specifically because of malicious comments.

      The forums are a lot better suited to discussion with their built-in quoting system, broader topic handling, and reply notifications. While I PERSONALLY prefer the use of Discord and see it better than the Wiki forums, the Forums are still undeniably better equip than the comment sections and also allow for a bigger range of topics.

      As I see it, having discussions focused on the forums is more beneficial than having discussions split between two different places.

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    • Shimmysan wrote: Like, you guys don't even seem to care how the users feel and forcing others to go to discord isn't right.

      I'll quote what I said above. You're not required to use Discord but Special:Forum instead. Please listen to this specific detail that was also included in the announcement post. I also asked why Discord seems unattractive. I am yet to receive answers.

      Shimmysan wrote: I've read the admins comments, and it's disturbing to see this on a wiki page. It's an act of censorship to me. Why is it so hard to either delete coments or block users?

      I quote what I said above. We are combining communications into fewer spaces so there's less to monitor. Absolutely nothing except the location of comments is compromised. You are absolutely free to comment in the exact same way. It definitely isn't censorship because the exact same comments can be made.

      Shimmysan wrote: Are you guys getting lazy or something, or just don't want to be admins anymore? This place is suppose to be a community, not a censored site. Yes, it is kid friendly, and people should talk about certain things, but closing comments is wrong.

      This is harsh to hear. Again, I'll quote what I said above and the reasons behind them. Please take a read. In summary, we are not being lazy.

      Shimmysan wrote: [comment 1] You might as well close topics too. [comment 2] I'm sorry if this is harsh, but this is very silly, and it's sad to see this wiki is becomming like EA. Basically you are punishing people because of a few bad eggs.

      As I said above in a link, which I'll state here again, there is a topic categorisation system on Special:Forum that you can use to basically mimic what article comments do exactly. For example, if you want a thread to talk about Bixbite, then add the subject to Bixbite. As I mentioned, users have not been punished because nothing has been lost except *the location* to where you can make comments.

      Forums is still available. Discord is available. There is no censorship. Only a new location to talk.

      Shimmysan wrote: Were the comments that bad when it came to gender, like Shep's character? I didn't read them. If they were that bad, then maybe I'll change my mind because I didn't think people would say things horrid things about a non binary character when it came to Steven Universe

      Though I personally do not know the specifics of Shep (see Sharayna), Shep is not just the reason that comments were disabled. Toxicity like Shep happened in the past, specifically with Stevonnie, Smoky, and Rainbow 2.0. These can still happen, but no longer as article comments. Again, there are other reasons such as encouraging the use of better communication platforms like the forums and Discord. Sharayna clarifies this above. Overall, much like disabling the wiki chat in favor of Discord, the decisions made were with the intent to improve.

      Please keep presenting your concerns, but don't say concerns that have already been answered and being rude while doing so. We're willing to listen, hence the comments in the first place. All the best, everyone, and I do hope you all still have a good start to 2020.

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    • Sharayna wrote: I'd really like to reiterate that comments being removed are NOT specifically because of malicious comments.

      The forums are a lot better suited to discussion with their built-in quoting system, broader topic handling, and reply notifications. While I PERSONALLY prefer the use of Discord and see it better than the Wiki forums, the Forums are still undeniably better equip than the comment sections and also allow for a bigger range of topics.

      As I see it, having discussions focused on the forums is more beneficial than having discussions split between two different places.

      But they were memories. I was nice looking back at old comments to remember what we said. Know they're all gone.

      Also, they weren't just for discussions. They were where people could give one-off opinions, and harmless jokes. Sure there were some transphobic jerks and troll, but those comments could be deleted by the admins.

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    • Sharayna wrote: I'd really like to reiterate that comments being removed are NOT specifically because of malicious comments.

      The forums are a lot better suited to discussion with their built-in quoting system, broader topic handling, and reply notifications. While I PERSONALLY prefer the use of Discord and see it better than the Wiki forums, the Forums are still undeniably better equip than the comment sections and also allow for a bigger range of topics.

      As I see it, having discussions focused on the forums is more beneficial than having discussions split between two different places.

      I do not mean to sound harsh here and mean this in the most respectful way possible, but this is not the point being made here. This was a move that was suddenly forced upon the fanbase with little regard as to how they would take to it. You're ultimately asking people use something new and that is honestly not used nearly as much. If you look at many of the discussion boards in forums, several have not been replied to in days. I follow the gem pages via email updates and most are updated with new comments daily. I don't agree with taking that away if that is what the majority uses.

      If i may add, using Discord as a substitute for a wiki trafficked by hundreds daily is not a good idea, anyone's post would be buried very quickly, it happens in almost every large fan based discord i have been a part in.

      Also like the user above stated, the comments are best suited for one-off opinions, small theories, little notes and compliments where as the Forums are best suited for longer more thought out discussions. I.e something that can be stated in more than one paragraph.

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    • Happy New Year as well! The new and improved wiki looks great so far! But it’s disappointing that the comments got disabled. I wanted to discuss some articles soon. At least there won’t be any spoilers.

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    • Jokeman20 wrote:
      Happy New Year as well! The new and improved wiki looks great so far! But it’s disappointing that the comments got disabled. I wanted to discuss some articles soon. At least there won’t be any spoilers.

      Yeah I'm kinda glad that the comments are gone 

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    • No matter what we do no one will be happy, so we ultimately acted to do what was ultimately best for the wikia as a whole. You can also receive email updates for forum threads.

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    • Fandom lost their status as a user-orientated site when they commercialised themselves. We do what we can to keep the link between editors however without company regulation it becomes harder and harder. The fact that we even try is magnificently more than most other large wikis, and the fact we are not paid for our efforts is hardly encouraging for the time we spend optimising this wiki, only for someone to edit in “Steven loves to have sex with Connie” on a page. Wikia’s (the Old Company, not Fandom) staff involvement has dwindled to the point where we have one wiki manager, who does not interact with the staff unless prompted. Compared to the many VSTF who frequented our Wiki Chat, and those who even helped with editing, css, and wiki layouts, it’s been hard to maintain this alone, especially with the popularity of the movie and Steven Universe Future.

      It seems harsh, but the truth and fact is that the majority of the active users on the wiki are children and will act like children when you take something away from them. We don’t like doing it, you don’t like seeing it. But there is a degree where we have to put our foot down and say enough is enough. You may think it’s funny to comment about Connie’s sexual appeal, Steg’s relationship regarding Steven and Greg as incest, or plainly just “STEVEN’S NECKKKKK HIS NECKKKK HE HAS A NEEEEECKKKK ATTENTION EVERYONE STEVEN HAS A NECK!!!!!” , but when this continues for several years, (2014-2020), we have to look at whether the comments are beneficial at all for the community. The appearance of all the comments I mentioned above have swayed us greatly in these decisions, as well as the obscenely rude and insensitive comments that have been made on this thread alone, leading me to be extremely disappointed in the users here as a community. Contact with a community is two way. If you do not wish to participate in this, you do not have to comment. Every time you are rude, it only validates our decision further, so think about what you want and the way you’re approaching things to get it.

      What we do, we do for the wiki now as a database of information which we are paid peanuts to actually maintain, rather than a social networking site. Wikia may have been developed in earlier years with this in mind, but now it is not. Its for the best in the long run, so we want the users to understand that alongside us. If you wish to contact staff, message walls are and will be the go-to place we recommend on site.

      We also encourage the joining of the discord server. While this is not for everyone, we respect this. We ask you do the same. Do not insult the usage of discord as an alternative to comments. In the three years the server has existed the communication between those users within it and staff, as well as each other, has improved tenfold. To address concerns:

      - The discord has a place to discuss on wiki matters, as well as an active discussion channel dedicated to Steven Universe - The discord has a place to share PNGs and submit PNGs for use on pages - The discord has places to share fanart, fanfiction and more - The discord gives you real time, one on one interaction with staff 24-7

      Please consider that we do not want to make things harder for you as a community to access the site; however we must also take into consideration the ease of running the site, which involves reviewing features that have become obsolete over time.

      Happy belated new year to everyone!

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    • Manaboy223 wrote: You're ultimately asking people use something new and that is honestly not used nearly as much. If you look at many of the discussion boards in forums, several have not been replied to in days.

      To note, Forum and Discord are not new. Forum has existed since the wiki was founded, and the Discord was made in late 2016 iirc. On another note, there is probably a psychological reason why article comments get more activity than forums, some reasons you have hypothesised. Perhaps, it's just the design of each feature that encourages people to act in different ways. That is ultimately down to how the user wants to use those features, however, and not how they're actually meant to be used.

      Manaboy223 wrote: If i may add, using Discord as a substitute for a wiki trafficked by hundreds daily is not a good idea, anyone's post would be buried very quickly, it happens in almost every large fan based discord i have been a part in.

      If you're on the Discord already, you may see that the activity isn't actually bad and usually pretty quiet and coherent. If you're not on the Discord, come have a see and find if your opinion changes. This is good advice overall, but as of now, we haven't experienced this doomsday beyond typical trolling and rule violations.

      Manaboy223 wrote: Also like the user above stated, the comments are best suited for one-off opinions, small theories, little notes and compliments where as the Forums are best suited for longer more thought out discussions. I.e something that can be stated in more than one paragraph.

      That seems to be your opinion. I mentioned that the design of these features may have a psychological effect on people, but I am yet to see actual studies on this. I also mentioned, though, that regardless of how a user feels about how to use certain features, you can still use Forums in the same way as article comments.

      For example, This forum post is of a simple two-line question, and people are simply making short one-off opinions on the wiki's new design. This forum post is of a person wishing the wiki a happy Christmas, which is a nice little compliment to give and reciprocate. This forum post is a discussion on why the viewership on Steven Universe is low on TV. The post itself is only 3 lines of text long, so posts longer than a paragraphs are not the only kind encourages. All kinds are encouraged, so long as they follow the rules. Finally, these forum posts each took a few seconds to find, and all of them are decently active. With the article comments gone, perhaps the activity could increase? We will see. I wished one thread a late merry Christmas, so you can hop on, too.

      Overall, there appears to be a psychological effect where it appears that certain features are used only in certain ways. No, they can be used in the exact same way as each other, so long as you follow the rules. It's best to give them a chance and to wait a week trying them out before coming to hard conclusions. It's tough now, but we do hope to see benefits.

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    • Piierogii wrote: Fandom lost their status as a user-orientated site when they commercialised themselves. We do what we can to keep the link between editors however without company regulation it becomes harder and harder. The fact that we even try is magnificently more than most other large wikis, and the fact we are not paid for our efforts is hardly encouraging for the time we spend optimising this wiki, only for someone to edit in “Steven loves to have sex with Connie” on a page. Wikia’s (the Old Company, not Fandom) staff involvement has dwindled to the point where we have one wiki manager, who does not interact with the staff unless prompted. Compared to the many VSTF who frequented our Wiki Chat, and those who even helped with editing, css, and wiki layouts, it’s been hard to maintain this alone, especially with the popularity of the movie and Steven Universe Future.

      Truly wikia editing and maintaining is a labor of love and passion, as someone who has seen the worst in the VOCALOID wiki I get it and applaud the editors and admins here for the work you do. Fellow editors have to jump through hoops over there as we get many of the same types of childish behavior, but as a fandom that's arguably in decline, any talk is good talk, it keeps it alive.

      Truly i do not mean any insult to any form of communication here either, i am personally not inclined to join more Discords due to the sheer volume of people in the larger ones, it gets to be too much in too little of a time frame, my opinion of Discord would not be the same fpr someone else who uses it more frequently

      @Cheesskates

      My point is though, psychologically or not, Forums are just an extra step that I just feel is not as needed. I'll adjust to whatever but i fear many will not and stop visiting or it will ultimately become an unorganised mess, not trying to sound offensive here, but atleast having people all commenting about Pearl on the Pearl comment section keeps it in one spot as opposed to among a dozen various other articles of varioua topics. People wanting to talk specifically about her would rather come here than search for an existing piece there, but again that's just a hypothesis.

      I'm not saying Forums aren't useful, but they're also not the best approach when you have something quick to say when there's a convenient comment section at the bottom of the page.

      Take of this what you will i am but a simple editor and commenter so my thoughts may not be all inclusive but I hope you'll atleast think it a little more thoroughly as others reply here.

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    • Manaboy223 wrote: Truly wikia editing and maintaining is a labor of love and passion, as someone who has seen the worst in the VOCALOID wiki I get it and applaud the editors and admins here for the work you do. Fellow editors have to jump through hoops over there as we get many of the same types of childish behavior, but as a fandom that's arguably in decline, any talk is good talk, it keeps it alive.

      While undoubtedly true, there is so much we as fellow human beings can take. It's at the point where we wish to cut out all talk on site completely, rather than hold out the hope that there will be better conversations which will outweigh the bad. Since this is rarely seen, the hope is non existent that this will happen. However within the discord, good talk happens daily, to the point where moderation is rarely needed.

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    • Manaboy223 wrote: As a fandom that's arguably in decline, any talk is good talk, it keeps it alive.

      I appreciate that. Indeed, this wiki was in the top 5 of most popular in the past. However, due to the many significantly long hiatuses of the show, even with the article comments on, the wiki declined in activity to be around the top 50 instead. As of current, the wiki is 18th, so the activity isn't dying yet. I'll be measuring the activity trend on WHAM to see if disabling article comments declined activity significantly.

      Manaboy223 wrote: My point is though, psychologically or not, Forums are just an extra step that I just feel is not needed. I'll adjust but i fear many will not and stop visiting or it will ultimately become an unorganised mess

      Perhaps. We wouldn't want people to stop visiting, but we would like people to give these features a try. They might like it better than once thought. As I mentioned, if activity does decline significantly, then that might be cause for consideration (no guarantees; I'm not an administrator/bureaucrat).

      Manaboy223 wrote: having people all commenting about Pearl on the Pearl comment section keeps it in one spot as opposed to among a dozen various other articles of varioua topics. People wanting to talk specifically about her would rather come here than search for an existing piece there, but again that's just a hypothesis

      I'll also admit that the topic categorisation system is to be observed as well, but it does give users the chance to categorise the posts themselves. The categorisation doesn't have to be done by them either, since they could just mention "Pearl" in the thread title. I do understand what you mean, though. Article Comments is slightly faster.

      Manaboy223 wrote: Take of this what you will i am but a simple editor and commenter so my thoughts may not be all inclusive but I hope you'll atleast think it a little more thoroughly as others rey here.

      I'll do my best, though my goal in the thread was to present both sides of the coin showing the positives and negatives. The negatives have been stated, and I am now listing the positives. Continued civil discussion is welcome. Ultimately, the best way to get me to think is to pose questions about the changes, and I try answering them, essentially.

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    • On one hand, I want the mods to catch a break and retain their sanity.

      On the other, I guess it felt kinda easier to express oneself through the comment sections since it was kinda more like leaving a thought drifting by rather than actively looking to participate in a discussion. Though I can see how it can get overwhelming for the mods with time.

      Wikia/Fandom forums have always been kinda confusing to navigate and some extra steps to post but I guess that's my inexperience with them, either way I guess that'll do a better job to filter out negativity and spam in itself lol

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    • Megamojo wrote: On one hand, I want the mods to catch a break and retain their sanity.

      On the other, I guess it felt kinda easier to express oneself through the comment sections since it was kinda more like leaving a thought drifting by rather than actively looking to participate in a discussion. Though I can see how it can get overwhelming for the mods with time.

      Wikia/Fandom forums have always been kinda confusing to navigate and some extra steps to post but I guess that's my inexperience with them, either way I guess that'll do a better job to filter out negativity and spam in itself lol

      You make good points. Indeed, as I have found in the thread, there are more steps to take with making comments on the forums, and there is a longer setup process before accessing the real-time chat that is Discord. You also make an interesting point how the article comments 'seem' to be for thoughts drifting by, as if the comments had an element of unconsciousness to them. This isn't a psychology lecture of course, but I can also see how the more involved process of posting on the forum or discord can drive people away, since it's a little extra effort that tips one over the edge. I know that feeling myself.

      I can admit that I am primarily a Discord user rather than a wiki commenter. As a result, I am a little less able to fully comprehend the feelings that a user would have with switching to forums over article comments. That is something I am to learn a little better. I will say, though, that I have used the features regardless and can get used to them, so it's about giving it a shot.

      I don't want to make the thread too much about the psychology of users since scientific studies are impossible, so I'll leave the subject on that note. The thread is about gathering more thoughts and concerns that should be addressed.

      P.S. Still waiting for reasons why Discord is unattractive to some users

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    • Happy new year, Everyone that includes the admins

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    • HotPinkMegaStar wrote: Happy new year, Everyone that includes the admins

      Happy new year to you too

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    • Happy New year! I love this new design and I always did think that the comments should be disabled on articles, it's sad that their gone but now there won't be as many arguments (Now only on threads) Have a great day everyone!

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    • Literally the only good thing about this is that certain commenters won't spam their toxic thoughts. And no, I'm not talking about the Shep thing.

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    • Oof

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    • Happy new decade, one day late!

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    • It looks like we have get to it again

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    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      05:47, January 3, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      05:47, January 3, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Will hares the note for when the discussions don't work Something went wrong :(

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    • OwOmasterlunarae wrote:
      can SOMEBODY close dis? too many messages are going EVERYWHERE.

      maybe we need the comments back after all.

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    • i've never used discord because i've always felt that the comment sections worked just fine so i never saw a reason to use it.

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    • let's have a vote? whatevs. IDC.

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    • can we have a vote on if the comments should stay or go? i mean. how else can people easily share their reference photos and show love to a character. The comments allowed those people to interact with the wiki. Now that it's gone.. it's heartbreaking. My favorite part of the wiki is looking at the comments. Now I really don't want to visit the wiki

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    • I don't want the comments to go, I like to comment on things.

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    • We can't comment anymore? Why not? I love commenting.

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    • aight, I'm gonna leave with everyone.

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    • Davidwalker30 wrote:
      We can't comment anymore? Why not? I love commenting.

      It literally says.

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    • I feel like we should've been given a warning or something. I'm not surprised people are upset, you just sprung it on everyone without giving them a chance to stop. You could've locked specific pages from being commented on. From what I saw, most people weren't being that horrible about Shep. Most were just upset that their ship sunk and hated that a new character was introduced to be Sadie's love interest, a similar reaction would've happened even if Shep wasn't non binary.

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote: a similar reaction would've happened even if Shep wasn't non binary.

      Yes, exactly. Fans will be fans, regardless of the context or situation.

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    • So active!!

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    • Que?

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    • Once the final episodes air, I'm gonna bounce completely.

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    • Imma probably take my time and then leave. And then come back to check up on everything. At least when the show is over, we will have more time to finish the wiki rather than still finishing up something and then having more episodes, designs, transcripts, galleries etc come at us.

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    • Sharayna wrote:

      Moving forwards, if you have a question or edit that you wish to be made or considered, please contact an admin or content moderator on their message walls or on the Ask the Staff board.

      So does this paragraph coming after the comment disabling announcement mean there's no appropriate context on this wiki in which to use the talk namespace for article edit discussion/consensus? If I were in a situation where I didn't need a sysop but thought consensus would need to be gained, I probably would have headed to the talk page upon seeing comments were disabled if I hadn't seen this announcement. (That's in part because I'm very used to "traditional" wiki etiquette (i.e. that at en Wikipedia for example), where the talk page is king for establishing consensus for a change, particularly if it's contentious.)

      I've seen some mention of Discord and I could get into why I personally don't use that in this context myself, but doing that right now would pull away from the central question I wanted to ask in this post.

      I would like to add that I like the comments being switched off, if only because when I come to a wiki I'm all business and comment sections often aren't that (and are hard to use in that way, especially if the page is a popular one).

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    • TalkingOddlySpooky wrote:
      Imma probably take my time and then leave. And then come back to check up on everything. At least when the show is over, we will have more time to finish the wiki rather than still finishing up something and then having more episodes, designs, transcripts, galleries etc come at us.

      Like how Opal's and Sugilite's pages were marked "complete" but then got unlocked 'cause they showed up in Snow Day.

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    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      While Discussions will eventually replace Forums, that doesn't mean an alternative is impossible.

      Just a note because I had the forethought to ask this when the wiki I admin lost forums to Discussions: If you'd like Wiki-style forums usable, you'd need to disable the Forum extension before Discussions actually replaces it or else you'll have to have Wikia staff go in the back way and unlock that functionality/namespace for you, because the "switch" won't be openly accessible after Discussions replaces the forum extension. (In theory, you'd have warning if you wanted to do this since in my experience the staff tells local sysops before Discussions go live/replace the forums, but yeah.)

      Just something to keep in mind if it should come to a moment where you're like "we want DPL forums".

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    • Crossover Enthusiast wrote:
      TalkingOddlySpooky wrote:
      Imma probably take my time and then leave. And then come back to check up on everything. At least when the show is over, we will have more time to finish the wiki rather than still finishing up something and then having more episodes, designs, transcripts, galleries etc come at us.
      Like how Opal's and Sugilite's pages were marked "complete" but then got unlocked 'cause they showed up in Snow Day.

      Exactly

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    • so..............the comments remove feature was unjust-ish.

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    • Crossover Enthusiast wrote:

      TalkingOddlySpooky wrote:
      Imma probably take my time and then leave. And then come back to check up on everything. At least when the show is over, we will have more time to finish the wiki rather than still finishing up something and then having more episodes, designs, transcripts, galleries etc come at us.

      Like how Opal's and Sugilite's pages were marked "complete" but then got unlocked 'cause they showed up in Snow Day.

      This kind of thing (and my history being on wikis like Wikipedia) is why I'm of the mind a wiki article anywhere can never truly be "complete". Worthy of semi-protection because it well covers everything and doesn't need to be subject to lots of edits from new users sure, but "complete" no. I don't think a wiki can ever really be finished, even if all it needs is polishing of formatting or grammar fixes, etc. (I'm also big on formatting for accessibility where possible and that's often glossed over and can't be dealt with if the page is protected. Like that time there was both a formatting and potential accessibility issue on Steven's page and I left it until it was unprotected because trying to describe how to fix it was too confusing even though it was an easy fix.)

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    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      P.S. Still waiting for reasons why Discord is unattractive to some users

      If you would care for my two cents as to why some users would be apprehnsive to creating a Discord account and joining Discord, it may be due to some of the controversies that have come from it in the past year or two. Up until last year, Discord allowed cub content (the furry equivalent of loli content) on their app, and a member of Discord even said that it was allowed. It wasn't until a massive outcry happened that Discord was forced to change this and ban this content.

      Source: https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/13/18223726/discord-policy-change-nsfw-cub-furry

      The next controversy is the rising numbers of underage teen dating servers appearing on Discord. This is pretty self explanatory. The worry is that a predator may try to trick underage teens into doing bad things, or teens may do things with each other.

      Source: https://onezero.medium.com/despite-strict-ban-discord-is-a-hub-for-potentially-dangerous-underage-dating-6749383f5e90

      Then there is the blackmarket on Discord that users may not want to be associated with by proxy. Users may not want to say to others irl that they have a Discord account should a massive bust happen in this blackmarket as they may face scrutiny despite not partaking in the sales of stolen goods.

      Source: https://onezero.medium.com/inside-discords-thriving-black-market-for-stolen-credit-cards-and-gift-cards-323be0256586

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    • Continuing on with FruitPhox's point. I'm pretty sure there was an incident in the MLP fandom, it's to be expected with shows targeted at young audiences, where someone used discord to do something bad. The victim and predator were in the fandom so it was caught but not all fandoms are that close, someone here could lure a minor to a personal discord and we might not catch wind of it because victims tend to not want to speak. I mean, we did have some very young and niave users join before.

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    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      P.S. Still waiting for reasons why Discord is unattractive to some users.

      For me it's just because everybody is rude to me, I know you might think I'm a baby just for leaving Discord for that reason but honestly if the community doesn't like me, I might as well leave.

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    • I just don't like Discord for wiki editing because I anticipate that (on an active wiki like this one) the chats might be too overwhelming for me to wish to take part in--I am not a fan of large servers and the ones I'm still in are muted in my server list and I never open them unless someone's used @everyone/@here.

      And I don't find it useful for discussing changes to a wiki because:

      1. I'm of the mind in most cases that those should happen on-wiki, not in a place that requires membership to an entire second service (take Wikimedia for example--they have IRC channels (which don't require membership to a second service but aren't on-wiki) but the modus operandi for wiki-related discussion is on the wiki... the only time I ever used Wikimedia's IRC channels was during the SOPA blackout)
      2. plus there are almost no changes that require a response/consensus so quickly that IM is required so no need to be there for that when there are on-wiki forms of communication

      Since I don't use wikis as some sort of social media and there are useful on-wiki forms of communication, there is no reason for me to join a wiki's Discord server even if I use Discord in other contexts. But at the same time I have no problem with losing comments for the same "I'm not here to socialize"/on-wiki communication availability reasons. Talk pages (assuming they're still okay to use; I'll patiently wait for a response to my message a bit upthread), forums, walls... Discussions (*shudder*), etc. Why use Discord, for this?

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    • And in my case The Weather Channel fandom doesn't have a Discord

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    • I like the new wallpaper though, again, we weren't made aware of the change at least to my knowledge. I know I sound whiny but I just feel like the staff should inform its members on anything concerning the wiki, good and bad, so they can have input on if people even like the change. I'd understand if the wiki was dead or if it was just for the season, gives everyone a surprise when they log in, but this wiki isn't dead.

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    • Disabling comments seems to be a massive overreaction.  Apparently comments weren't a problem until the introduction of Shep.  It is maintained that discussions of biological sex, gender and sexuality are inappropriate for this wiki.  Why?  It is clearly appropriate for the show this wiki covers.  Steven Universe has been all about issues of biological sex, gender and sexuality from the start.  If those subjects are appropriate for the show itself why are they inappropriate for the wiki?

      The show introduced a non-binary character who is in a romantic relationship with a main character and putting an end to one of the show's more contentious relationships.  What did you think we were going to talk about when Shep was introduced?  How do you talk about something like that at the level of a five year old?  Steven Universe explores a lot of very adult topics regarding sex, gender, consent, violation, war, genocide, slavery, tyranny.  There's a difference between graphic discussions of what Shep and Sadie do under the covers and reasonable discussions of the story and character implications of Shep's introduction as Sadie's romantic partner.  It opens a whole new door on a character we've followed for five seasons and you're telling us we can't go through that door?

      This wiki has discussed fusion as a metaphor for sex.  It has discussed the themes of violation and consent present in the Sardonyx arc.  It has discussed Pearl's frustration at watching Rose's sexual escapades across the millennia.  It discussed Greg's desire to elevate his relationship with Rose to something more than sex toy.  Don't even get me started on sexual can of worms that is Stevonnie.  Biological sex, gender and sexuality have always been core aspects of Steven Universe as admitted by Rebecca Sugar herself.  Now you're telling us that Shep is a bridge too far and we can't have nice things anymore.

      As to your concern that such discussions may be inappropriate for younger users I remind you that many of those younger users are living these issues in the real world.  That's why Sugar addresses these issues in the show.  She wanted to give validation to those young viewers who are being raised by gender non-conforming parents, have gender non-comforming friends or family members or may be gender non-conforming themselves.  The idea that you are protecting them from Steven Universe is frankly condescending.

      You have other options beyond simply nuking comments.  Treating the community like a bunch of children who just learned their first dirty words should not be one of them.

      Or is this a COPPA thing?

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    • If there aren't any comments, then here's an idea for a new episode:

      Bluebird Azurite creates a machine that automatically fuses any Gem that falls into it and they can't defuse unless they're poofed. Jasper and Lapis fall in and fuse into Malachite. Peridot and Bismuth have to fuse into...I can't think of a name, but I'm considering Praseodymium. They save Jasper and Lapis, poof Bluebird Azurite and Jasper's redemption arc begins!

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    • Such a bummer... I'll miss the comments sections.

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    • Well it's certainly not a coppa thing, they take things into context and go through a long, semi tedious process to decide what's in/not in violation of the laws. Wikis are fine because it's just a bunch of information compiled into a site, coppa would get involved if something specifically targeted kids.

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    • Anyways, my main issue with this is that we never got updated on anything. We didn't get told about the wallpaper, the new theme, or comments being disabled until after the fact. I'm used to wikis updating its users on these things beforehand, saying, "hey, which wallpaper do you like?" This isn't like changing something for the holidays or changing something to give old users a surprise after a wiki has been dead with the same background for years, this was a permanant, spontaneus change we had no say in.

      Almost forgot, I know you don't mean it to sound rude but maybe for a topic like this you could avoid saying something like, "maybe you could change your mind." to ask us to give this a chance, it can come across as you not caring how we feel which is not something you want people to think right now.

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    • If it was COPPA fandom it self would go court

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    • Theweathercat2002 wrote:
      If it was COPPA fandom it self would go court

      Exactly, so it's not that

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Disabling comments seems to be a massive overreaction.  Apparently comments weren't a problem until the introduction of Shep.  It is maintained that discussions of biological sex, gender and sexuality are inappropriate for this wiki.  Why?  It is clearly appropriate for the show this wiki covers.  Steven Universe has been all about issues of biological sex, gender and sexuality from the start.  If those subjects are appropriate for the show itself why are they inappropriate for the wiki?

      The show introduced a non-binary character who is in a romantic relationship with a main character and putting an end to one of the show's more contentious relationships.  What did you think we were going to talk about when Shep was introduced?  How do you talk about something like that at the level of a five year old?  Steven Universe explores a lot of very adult topics regarding sex, gender, consent, violation, war, genocide, slavery, tyranny.  There's a difference between graphic discussions of what Shep and Sadie do under the covers and reasonable discussions of the story and character implications of Shep's introduction as Sadie's romantic partner.  It opens a whole new door on a character we've followed for five seasons and you're telling us we can't go through that door?

      This wiki has discussed fusion as a metaphor for sex.  It has discussed the themes of violation and consent present in the Sardonyx arc.  It has discussed Pearl's frustration at watching Rose's sexual escapades across the millennia.  It discussed Greg's desire to elevate his relationship with Rose to something more than sex toy.  Don't even get me started on sexual can of worms that is Stevonnie.  Biological sex, gender and sexuality have always been core aspects of Steven Universe as admitted by Rebecca Sugar herself.  Now you're telling us that Shep is a bridge too far and we can't have nice things anymore.

      As to your concern that such discussions may be inappropriate for younger users I remind you that many of those younger users are living these issues in the real world.  That's why Sugar addresses these issues in the show.  She wanted to give validation to those young viewers who are being raised by gender non-conforming parents, have gender non-comforming friends or family members or may be gender non-conforming themselves.  The idea that you are protecting them from Steven Universe is frankly condescending.

      You have other options beyond simply nuking comments.  Treating the community like a bunch of children who just learned their first dirty words should not be one of them.

      Or is this a COPPA thing?

      Preach! Seriously, I couldn't have said it myself.

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    • aNd GuYs DoN't FoRgEt YoU cAn SwEaR oN dIsCoRd.

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    • TalkingOddlySpooky wrote:
      aNd GuYs DoN't FoRgEt YoU cAn SwEaR oN dIsCoRd.

      Another reason I don't like discord, I personally don't like reading or hearing swears especially when it's excessive.

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    • No we didn't we just don't want to be affiliated with dark side of Discord

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote:

      TalkingOddlySpooky wrote:
      aNd GuYs DoN't FoRgEt YoU cAn SwEaR oN dIsCoRd.

      Another reason I don't like discord, I personally don't like reading or hearing swears especially when it's excessive.

      Same goes for me. I’ve left so many servers because of this. Swearing on the wiki gets us a block, or even a ban, but on Discord everyone gets away with it. Which, only makes it harder for people who want to join the Discord. If you’re focused on keeping the wiki clean, why isn’t Discord going in the same route?

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    • HEY!!!! there's a vote, and it's quite largly filled with support.

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    • Wonder if the staff is busy, hope they're not on discord right now instead of reading what we have to say.

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote:

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote:

      TalkingOddlySpooky wrote:
      aNd GuYs DoN't FoRgEt YoU cAn SwEaR oN dIsCoRd.

      Another reason I don't like discord, I personally don't like reading or hearing swears especially when it's excessive.

      Same goes for me. I’ve left so many servers because of this. Swearing on the wiki gets us a block, or even a ban, but on Discord everyone gets away with it. Which, only makes it harder for people who want to join the Discord. If you’re focused on keeping the wiki clean, why isn’t Discord going in the same route?

      It's because wiki and Discord are different platforms. Some wiki servers I have seen has different rules than the wiki because they are users who are both Discord & wiki users and there are Discord users who aren't on the wiki that like to join a server. Also, the Wiki is public which can be why swearing is discouraged because kids can see the wiki without an account and Discord is private, which means you need an account to see the conversations.

      Like another example where Discord can be a good way of communicating than using the wiki comments/threads is discussion of leaks. You can't do it in the wiki but you can in its own dedicated channel which is an option for people to not view it or view it.

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    • There isn't away to turn off some comments and lave others on
      BBC2 Closedown 1991 (Last Showing Of 1986 TWO)

      BBC2 Closedown 1991 (Last Showing Of 1986 TWO)

      and I quted this
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    • Also, does discord even save comments? What if I want to look back on a funny conversation? What if one of our users invites a younger user into a private server and hurts them? What if we ask something really important and the question gets buried? What if, like FruitPhox said, black market dealers target the younger members? What if discord is actually a front for something twisted?

      You can turn some comment sections off

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    • Theweathercat2002
      Theweathercat2002 removed this reply because:
      y5y5y5
      00:46, January 3, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • This comment section is chaotic. 😔

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    • StereoTitan877 wrote:
      This comment section is chaotic. 😔

      Are you surprised? While many of us have cooled down it's still something they didn't talk to us about. It makes us feel like the staff just don't care about our feelings, lowering the overall morale and making us want to keep lashing out. Doesn't help that the staff appears busy with other things and thus isn't responding to our comments.

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    • Even if it started out as an update but who knew it would become pure chaos .

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote: Are you surprised? While many of us have cooled down it's still something they didn't talk to us about. It makes us feel like the staff just don't care about our feelings, lowering the overall morale and making us want to keep lashing out. Doesn't help that the staff appears busy with other things and thus isn't responding to our comments.

      Exactly. The wiki was always a fun place for me, and I trusted the admins, and still do. But, I agree with you, it does make a lot of us feel like they don’t care about our feelings. The wiki just... isn’t fun anymore. Don’t the users matter? If we do, then couldn’t we have gotten a warning ahead of time?

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote:

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote:

      StereoTitan877 wrote:
      This comment section is chaotic. 😔

      Are you surprised? While many of us have cooled down it's still something they didn't talk to us about. It makes us feel like the staff just don't care about our feelings, lowering the overall morale and making us want to keep lashing out. Doesn't help that the staff appears busy with other things and thus isn't responding to our comments.

      Exactly. The wiki was always a fun place for me, and I trusted the admins, and still do. But, I agree with you, it does make a lot of us feel like they don’t care about our feelings. The wiki just... isn’t fun anymore. Don’t the users matter? If we do, then couldn’t we have gotten a warning ahead of time?

      About two weeks ahead of time would've smart

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    • I'M LOSING HOPE :<

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    • OwOmasterlunarae wrote: I'M LOSING HOPE :<

      Don't lose hope

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    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      06:40, January 3, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Welp none of this matters anymore

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    • Cheechdog2 wrote: Welp none of this matters anymore

      But we'll know the full story of why this falled and someone in 20 years time will not

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    • I think that BBC 2 's last paint ident from 2001 sould end off the thread

      BBC Two - Paint Ident - 19th November 2001

      BBC Two - Paint Ident - 19th November 2001

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    • SnailofKale wrote:
      Ah, thank you. While I personally don't ENJOY this change, I see the necessity.

      But...YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU, YOU CAN MAKE A CHANGE

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    • Hope you enjoyed it while it lasted

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    • Sharayna
      Sharayna removed this reply because:
      06:39, January 3, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Augustborn1996 wrote: Ok whats going on?

      Were just trying end the thread

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote: But...YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU, YOU CAN MAKE A CHANGE

      Seriously? I’m not trying to attack you but, seriously?

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    • Piierogii wrote:

      It seems harsh, but the truth and fact is that the majority of the active users on the wiki are children and will act like children when you take something away from them. We don’t like doing it, you don’t like seeing it. But there is a degree where we have to put our foot down and say enough is enough. You may think it’s funny to comment about Connie’s sexual appeal, Steg’s relationship regarding Steven and Greg as incest, or plainly just “STEVEN’S NECKKKKK HIS NECKKKK HE HAS A NEEEEECKKKK ATTENTION EVERYONE STEVEN HAS A NECK!!!!!” , but when this continues for several years, (2014-2020), we have to look at whether the comments are beneficial at all for the community. The appearance of all the comments I mentioned above have swayed us greatly in these decisions, as well as the obscenely rude and insensitive comments that have been made on this thread alone, leading me to be extremely disappointed in the users here as a community. Contact with a community is two way. If you do not wish to participate in this, you do not have to comment. Every time you are rude, it only validates our decision further, so think about what you want and the way you’re approaching things to get it.

      The flaw with this reasoning is that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of other wikis out there dealing with children's programming whose comment sections are still active even though they are facing the same concerns you are.  How would you like to have been curating the Loud House wiki the day is was revealed that Luna was in love with a girl?  They were debating whether Luna was lesbian or bi over there.  Their comment section is still active. 

      The fact is that anonymity creates morons.  That's always been a fact of life on the internet.  Just talk to the people over at Wikipedia.  If you're going to let the worst of us determine what kind of place this wiki will be then you might as well fold your tents.  It's the interactivity that makes these places worth visiting.  Either killing comments is going to be a trend followed by other wikis or you're overreacting. 

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    • Honestly we're just tired

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    • Hello, everyone. I am back again to read through and respond to some comments! See a summary at the end of this post.

      Steven+Amethyst=SmokyQuartz wrote: i've never used discord because i've always felt that the comment sections worked just fine so i never saw a reason to use it.

      That's fine. I can understand that. Give Discord a try, and you may like it. If not, there's still Special:Forum :)

      Geodefarm wrote: can we have a vote on if the comments should stay or go? i mean. how else can people easily share their reference photos and show love to a character. The comments allowed those people to interact with the wiki. Now that it's gone.. it's heartbreaking. My favorite part of the wiki is looking at the comments. Now I really don't want to visit the wiki

      As I repeated many times on this thread, you can still share your photos on the forums. The comments section is not the only place to communicate. If there are further concerns, you may note them. As with voting, the wiki may put up a vote so long as they read and understand the voting policy.

      Augustborn1996 wrote: I don't want the comments to go, I like to comment on things.

      Davidwalker30 wrote: We can't comment anymore? Why not? I love commenting.

      TalkingOddlySpooky wrote:

      Davidwalker30 wrote:
      We can't comment anymore? Why not? I love commenting.

      It literally says.

      *Blink* *blink*

      You can still use the forums if you don't want to use the Discord...

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: I feel like we should've been given a warning or something. I'm not surprised people are upset, you just sprung it on everyone without giving them a chance to stop. You could've locked specific pages from being commented on.

      From what I saw, most people weren't being that horrible about Shep. Most were just upset that their ship sunk and hated that a new character was introduced to be Sadie's love interest, a similar reaction would've happened even if Shep wasn't non binary.

      1. See Piierogi, Sharayna, and my comments above. The reason wasn't just Shep's comment section, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Indeed, perhaps it should have been indicated earlier, which is why this thread still exists. Your thoughts are being considered.

      2. The terrible comments were deleted by Sharayna. Some users even purposefully tried to start fights and flamewars over Shep. Seek out Sharayna for more details if you wish.

      KameronDoughty wrote:

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: a similar reaction would've happened even if Shep wasn't non binary.

      Yes, exactly. Fans will be fans, regardless of the context or situation.

      ... That's not something to be encouraged. It may be "the case", but that doesn't mean crazy things are allowed to happen.

      Citrusellaeditswikis wrote: So does this paragraph coming after the comment disabling announcement mean there's no appropriate context on this wiki in which to use the talk namespace for article edit discussion/consensus? If I were in a situation where I didn't need a sysop but thought consensus would need to be gained, I probably would have headed to the talk page upon seeing comments were disabled if I hadn't seen this announcement. (That's in part because I'm very used to "traditional" wiki etiquette (i.e. that at en Wikipedia for example), where the talk page is king for establishing consensus for a change, particularly if it's contentious.)

      Don't worry. Talk pages are still possible, such as with the movie page. Forums can be a mix of social and wiki talk, but talk pages can also be options to talk about the article itself and what should be changed. It's not *as* easy as comments, but we're looking for thoughtful comments on talkpages, as you would understand. The repeated message on this thread: communications has not been compromised in any way.

      Citrusellaeditswikis wrote: Just a note because I had the forethought to ask this when the wiki I admin lost forums to Discussions: If you'd like Wiki-style forums usable, you'd need to disable the Forum extension before Discussions actually replaces it or else you'll have to have Wikia staff go in the back way and unlock that functionality/namespace for you, because the "switch" won't be openly accessible after Discussions replaces the forum extension.

      Thanks for telling us this. We do think Discussions would actually be a great replica in the design of article comments, as it looks more like a social media site than a formal place. There's also the potential that both Discussions and DPL forums will be used for different purposes, but this may ruin the point of disabling article comments anyway: to reduce the redundancy on the wiki.

      Fruitphox wrote: If you would care for my two cents as to why some users would be apprehnsive to creating a Discord account and joining Discord, it may be due to some of the controversies that have come from it in the past year or two. Up until last year, Discord allowed cub content (the furry equivalent of loli content) on their app, and a member of Discord even said that it was allowed. It wasn't until a massive outcry happened that Discord was forced to change this and ban this content.

      Source: https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/13/18223726/discord-policy-change-nsfw-cub-furry

      The next controversy is the rising numbers of underage teen dating servers appearing on Discord. This is pretty self explanatory. The worry is that a predator may try to trick underage teens into doing bad things, or teens may do things with each other.

      Source: https://onezero.medium.com/despite-strict-ban-discord-is-a-hub-for-potentially-dangerous-underage-dating-6749383f5e90

      Then there is the blackmarket on Discord that users may not want to be associated with by proxy. Users may not want to say to others irl that they have a Discord account should a massive bust happen in this blackmarket as they may face scrutiny despite not partaking in the sales of stolen goods.

      Source: https://onezero.medium.com/inside-discords-thriving-black-market-for-stolen-credit-cards-and-gift-cards-323be0256586

      1. I see. We will say with absolute certaintly that we don't allow furry loli media content. While there can be raunchy discussions for humerous reasons among familiar friends, they don't so far as to present NSFW imagery or literature. It is also completely impossible to verify the age of users 100%. The 2nd Medium article linked states to show your face with a username or an ID, but these can easily be doctored (faked). True verification is travelling to us and seeing you in person, which is simply impossible. Thus, there is no adult channel for this very reason, as the wiki is still for a kids show.

      2. This is an unfortunate fact about the internet in general, and even article comments cannot solve this over Discord. Yes, Discord makes it more hidden, which is a concern in itself thanks to the wiki being for children. The best advice we can give by that point is to talk to your parents about what happened on the internet or simply to contact Discord or us moderators for advice and action. I'm just as disturbed as you with these new reports, but we can only do so much. It's up to the user to understand and practice cybersafety. This is not a Discord-exclusive thing.

      3. I see... I have no comments on this. The best advice is just to see a lawyer and use Discord legitimately. You'll then have the best chance to be acquited if charged, though this is very speculative to occur. Discord is still a chat platform with roots from Skype, so its reputation wouldn't be destroyed by things it discourages but struggles to fix. Again, though, this is not just a Discord problem.

      To also note, I have been using Discord for 4 years, particularly on the wiki's Discord server, and I have never encountered an issue regarding the black market or other morally illegal issues (except one of a long-time individual we obviously cannot namebomb, but that was dealt with swiftly). While these news events are possible for other parts of Discord, our wiki Discord has had none of them. I hope this boosts confidence, but I do understand the stigma that exists. The main message is just to be safe on the internet and not do shady stuff, and you'll most likely be fine.

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: Continuing on with FruitPhox's point. I'm pretty sure there was an incident in the MLP fandom, it's to be expected with shows targeted at young audiences, where someone used discord to do something bad. The victim and predator were in the fandom so it was caught but not all fandoms are that close, someone here could lure a minor to a personal discord and we might not catch wind of it because victims tend to not want to speak. I mean, we did have some very young and niave users join before.

      This is not just a Discord problem. This can also very easily happen on wikis as well. Not everyone comes to the Steven Universe Wiki, and some users like weathercat can lead people to the logo chat instead, outside our purview. This is not to say that weathercat is leading people to bad places. I'm just saying that these problems are not exclusively Discord.

      Regardless, we will do our best to protect users, but the best way to succeed in this protection comes down to you being safe on the internet and letting trusted people (parents, etc.) know what you're doing.

      TalkingOddlySpooky wrote: For me it's just because everybody is rude to me, I know you might think I'm a baby just for leaving Discord for that reason but honestly if the community doesn't like me, I might as well leave.

      I'm sorry to hear this. Generally, people would be rude if one is interrupting conversations, breaking the rules, or constantly posting in the wrong channel with one line, image, or emote that contributes little to a conversation. I am not saying that you did those things, but rather examples of where the rudeness could frequently occur. If people are being unnecessarily rude to you, please ping a discord moderator for their advice and action (if you want to come back). You can still use the wiki's forums, though, and not using Discord is completely fine!

      Citrusellaeditswikis wrote: Since I don't use wikis as some sort of social media and there are useful on-wiki forms of communication, there is no reason for me to join a wiki's Discord server even if I use Discord in other contexts. But at the same time I have no problem with losing comments for the same "I'm not here to socialize"/on-wiki communication availability reasons. Talk pages (assuming they're still okay to use; I'll patiently wait for a response to my message a bit upthread), forums, walls... Discussions (*shudder*), etc. Why use Discord, for this?

      I completely agree. The Discord is a decent option for wiki discussion, but the forums would be the preferred place thanks to the transparancy. This is why the forums still exist, and the Discord is also an option for more social commentary.

      Hawas1983 wrote: Disabling comments seems to be a massive overreaction.  Apparently comments weren't a problem until the introduction of Shep.  It is maintained that discussions of biological sex, gender and sexuality are inappropriate for this wiki.  Why?  It is clearly appropriate for the show this wiki covers.  Steven Universe has been all about issues of biological sex, gender and sexuality from the start.  If those subjects are appropriate for the show itself why are they inappropriate for the wiki?

      [1st comment] The show introduced a non-binary character who is in a romantic relationship with a main character and putting an end to one of the show's more contentious relationships. What did you think we were going to talk about when Shep was introduced? [2nd comment] There's a difference between graphic discussions of what Shep and Sadie do under the covers and reasonable discussions of the story and character implications of Shep's introduction as Sadie's romantic partner.  It opens a whole new door on a character we've followed for five seasons and you're telling us we can't go through that door?

      This wiki has discussed fusion as a metaphor for sex.  It has discussed the themes of violation and consent present in the Sardonyx arc.  It has discussed Pearl's frustration at watching Rose's sexual escapades across the millennia.  It discussed Greg's desire to elevate his relationship with Rose to something more than sex toy.  Don't even get me started on sexual can of worms that is Stevonnie.  Biological sex, gender and sexuality have always been core aspects of Steven Universe as admitted by Rebecca Sugar herself.  Now you're telling us that Shep is a bridge too far and we can't have nice things anymore.

      As to your concern that such discussions may be inappropriate for younger users I remind you that many of those younger users are living these issues in the real world.  That's why Sugar addresses these issues in the show.  She wanted to give validation to those young viewers who are being raised by gender non-conforming parents, have gender non-comforming friends or family members or may be gender non-conforming themselves.  The idea that you are protecting them from Steven Universe is frankly condescending.

      You have other options beyond simply nuking comments.  Treating the community like a bunch of children who just learned their first dirty words should not be one of them.

      Or is this a COPPA thing?

      1. Shep was the straw that broke the camel's back. See Piierogii and Sharayna's comments for extra reasons why the comments were disabled. Besides this, yes, the wiki does accept these kind of conversations. However, many, many comments have been deleted for being downright offensive. Some were even purposefully made to start flamewars. See Sharayna for specific details, but in summary, the article comments weren't disabled just from Shep but from a culmination of other problems that have already been repeated on this thread.

      2. From what I remember, there were no graphic discussions even with deleted comments. There were discussions which you have seen which have been allowed (not all of the discussion was deleted since you're entitled to state an opinion civilly and rule-abiding). You can make those same comments in the forums and Discord so long as you follow the rules. Therefore, we are allowing you "through the door".

      3. We are not. We're just telling the wiki to remain civil, rational, and rule-abiding. On many occasions, this has been violated on article comments. See Sharayna again for details on Shep as an example and Piierogii for historical examples (Remember the Zuke situation?). Feel free to continue discussing these. We're not stopping you.

      4. I can't comment on this since these weren't my arguments. In my opinion, such discussions are only given a stigma because it leads to passionate arguments that cause harm during a discussion. This is why some comments were deleted with Shep, as many comments were blatantly offensive and provocative. You may otherwise continue to discuss these civilly and rationally. That's my opinion.

      5. Feel free to comment elsewhere besides article comments, such as the forums or Discord. As with it being COPPA, I understand that COPPA is now popular because of the YouTube drama. I'll say this now: COPPA has nothing to do with this situation because it has been a thing since this wiki began. COPPA is a law that must be followed, or criminal charges will apply. The wiki is not obligated to enforce this but Fandom Staff instead. Regardless, the wiki staff choose to enforce it for the safety of children. It's a philosophical argument that requires its own thread for discussion, so we'll stop there. Case in point, COPPA has nothing to do with disabling the comments.

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: Almost forgot, I know you don't mean it to sound rude but maybe for a topic like this you could avoid saying something like, "maybe you could change your mind." to ask us to give this a chance, it can come across as you not caring how we feel which is not something you want people to think right now.

      Understandable. I apologise. I just wanted to refer to the message of the actual episode. I definitely do care otherwise, which is why I'm responding to these comments at all (even if some comments have already been said a number of times. e.g. "You can still use forums over Discord.")

      Theweathercat2002 wrote: No we didn't we just don't want to be affiliated with dark side of Discord

      As I actually said above, you can still use the forums, though other social media regarding Steven Universe, such as the Reddit, so allow strong swearing in moderation. The wiki is a place where strong swearing isn't allowed, so the forums is a good place to talk if you want to avoid them.

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: Wonder if the staff is busy, hope they're not on discord right now instead of reading what we have to say.

      I was asleep personally, so I couldn't read and respond to comments during this time of yours. My timezone is AEST. See this page for timezone info.

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: Also, does discord even save comments? What if I want to look back on a funny conversation?

      What if one of our users invites a younger user into a private server and hurts them?

      What if we ask something really important and the question gets buried?

      What if, like FruitPhox said, black market dealers target the younger members? What if discord is actually a front for something twisted?

      You can turn some comment sections off

      1. Discord does save conversations, right down to the very beginning of the server. Their search feature is finicky, thoughnot worse than the wiki's own. Screenshots are also possible, which is why some Discord members post funny images that were on the wiki's chat back in the day. Convos can be saved, so there's no worries there.

      2. That is not just a Discord problem and can also happen on wiki sites. As of now, only one instance (that went nowhere) happened in the near 3 years the Discord was here, and that was of a non-stranger we won't namebomb. The best advice is for you to practice cybersafety, speak with the mods or your parents, and so forth.

      3. I will say this. Nowhere except #general would be ludicrously fast or #su-talk on an episode release day. When a comment does get buried, you can ask the question later, perhaps by pinging a moderator. In fact, unlike Discord, you cannot ping specific users to notice a forum thread on the wiki. Only the Discussions tool, which this wiki doesn't have, is able to do this. Therefore, your question cannot be buried so long as you ask again, and the server isn't chatty enough to have most questions in the appropriate channels be buried anyway (#wikia for wiki questions, #su-talk for SU questions, etc.)

      4. Our Discord, we guarantee, is none of those things and has not been for the years it has existed. Any form of Discord server advertisement that is not previously approved by staff members is rejected and dealt with immediately. I will also state again: Black market chats are not just a Discord problem. This happens all across the internet. Our Discord has none of it and does not tolerate illegal activity like that.

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: While many of us have cooled down it's still something they didn't talk to us about. It makes us feel like the staff just don't care about our feelings, lowering the overall morale and making us want to keep lashing out. Doesn't help that the staff appears busy with other things and thus isn't responding to our comments.

      The staff consist mostly of adults with jobs or school work to do, along with an affinity towards developing their hobbies and relationships with real-life people than internet users. Most of us will likely be doing something that is, sad to say, more important than the wiki. This does not mean, however, that staff do not care about your feelings. Why am I responding in the first place? It's to discuss with the wiki about their thoughts and to address concerns.

      Also, I was asleep, so I couldn't respond to comments in this meanwhile. It's more difficult when the majority of wiki users come from the United States, which I am 10 hours ahead in Australia. The most activity comes from a time I am asleep, so do bare with my slow response times at certain points.

      DetectiveAquamarine wrote: Exactly. The wiki was always a fun place for me, and I trusted the admins, and still do. But, I agree with you, it does make a lot of us feel like they don’t care about our feelings. The wiki just... isn’t fun anymore. Don’t the users matter? If we do, then couldn’t we have gotten a warning ahead of time?

      This has been repeatedly said and acknowledged, but I might bring it up as a possibility to the other staff members again. I personally would ask that the wiki wait a week or two to see if they got used to the different features. Communications have only moved to a different location, and the removal of article comments does not change how you should communicate. I'll have to see, I suppose. I'm personally sorry for hearing how the decision has caused negative feelings. I'll hope to see these issues get resolved, preferably without restoring article comments. No guarantees on anything, however.

      I'll also note this finding. Many of the Discord users have commented their opinion on disabling the article comments. The majority approve of the change but are also sad to see it go. They are understanding and have also raised similar concerns, but they recognize that the Discord is still a good place to discuss the same things. There could, of course, be bias to Discord as much as there is bias for the article comments. This is just stating what has happened and how the community seems split regardless. That's why we'll have to see what time tells us.

      Cheechdog2 wrote: Welp none of this matters anymore

      It does matter, but people do need to understand that there are legitimate reasons to why it happens and also legitimate criticisms to the decision. That's why this thread exists. That's why I exist on this thread.

      DetectiveAquamarine wrote: It's the interactivity that makes these places worth visiting. Either killing comments is going to be a trend followed by other wikis or you're overreacting.

      You can still comment the exact same things on the forums or Discord, as has been stated nearly a dozen times now. Only the location for comments has changed, as stated many times. You just need to discuss them civily and by following the regulations. Comments here have been deleted for violating these throughout the wiki's history for many characters and Zuke herself. They don't have to be deleted, though, as many comments on Shep and others still talk of the subjects regarding gender debate and so forth. They just need to be good-willed comments.

      Sharayna wrote: Honestly we're just tired

      We all could have done better. This is a lesson to everyone at the end of the day.


      And with that, I believe I have addressed a good deal of comments today. I'll continue responding, but this is the summary that I have interpreted:

      • Some users are discouraged from using Discord because of the swearing being allowed, controversies found in the news, and its lack of transparancy for the wiki. These are legitimate criticisms, but there are rebuttles. You can still use the wiki's forums if you don't like the Discord for social things like theories and artwork, and you can still use talk pages on the articles to talk specifically about improving the article. We will also say with certainty that the controversies of Discord do not apply to the server. The best advice is to practice cybersafety and let trusted people know what you're doing and experiencing.
      • Some users are concerned with how disabling article comments sets a precedent on what should be discussed or not, especially regarding gender identity and so forth. Sharayna and Piierogii has stated their piece, but in summary, you can still discuss those subjects. All you need to do, though, is discuss it civilly and following the rules. The majority of comments on pages do discuss these, but it is only the majorly offensive ones that were deleted and that we discourage.
      • Some users are concerned that the sudden change of a non-holiday theme and a possibly permanent change of disabling comments would mean that user opinion is not taken into priority over staff opinion, and that there will be other instances where a warning on change won't get the chance to gather user opinion. For the first conjunction, the answer is a yes or no depending on the context. Yes, user opinion is important, which is why the voting board exists. No, user opinion does not control the entire wiki, and staff reserve the right to void user opinion. It's why there is staff to help the wiki, not harm it. For the second conjunction, these changes were done in name of the new decade. Perhaps yes, these changes should have been noted earlier. Perhaps, the changes could have been planned with a better consensus, as there are concerns addressed within the staff team themself. Indeed, there can be improvements, which is why this thread exists. What I will advocate, though, is that I'll look for user opinion moreso in the future and also encourage it among staff members (the main problem is that there will always be a divide in opinion, which halts progress and change, but this is debatable in itself).

      Thanks for the comments, everyone. I'll still be here doing my best! It's pretty difficult to write, but the wiki gives me strength.

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    • Hmm..what happen to the beuatful BG? I'm just asking here. :)

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    • TheNinjaOnTheTop wrote:
      Sharayna wrote:
      Another primary reason we are disabling comments is to hopefully push discussion towards the discord server where it's a lot easier to have engaging discussion in real time
      So to talk about stuff I have to join a server that I'm not interested in joining? No offense but do you realize how stupid that sounds?

      Okay, I'll try to explain my reasonings calmly: I think removing comments is a huge overreaction. You explain it's because of conversations that are harmful to the wiki and/or its users but why not stop those specific conversations and explain to the participants of said discussion that it is harmful to talk about the subject? Because believe it or not, most people don't know when they're being harmful to others; they aren't purposefully trying to be malicious so telling them and explaining why to them is the best bet to get those conversations to stop and if they persist and continue to talk about harmful subjects fully knowing they're harmful...then just ban them. I don't see why we are getting rid of every single discussion because of a few bad eggs that probably don't even know they're being bad eggs.

      this. is. very. important.

      perhaps if more people took time to explain things to others instead of just defaulting to HERP IM OFFENDED the world would be at least a slightly nicer place

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    • also some people just want to give their thoughts on a character or concept from the show without taking the time to join a discord server

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    • Just a reminder that theForums are still open. :)

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    • Sharayna wrote: Just a reminder that theForums are still open. :)

      Until April, that is

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    • SaltyPearl7152 wrote: also some people just want to give their thoughts on a character or concept from the show without taking the time to join a discord server

      Joining takes 3 seconds maybe 2 if you have good internet

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    • This wiki will most likely be opting out of Discussions because of their poor moderation system.

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    • does that mean no comments OR forums? then how does any form of discussion even happen? or am i misunderstanding something

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    • The forums will still be used even after april.

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    • then what does "opting out of discussions" mean exactly? i dont actually know

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    • SaltyPearl7152 wrote: also some people just want to give their thoughts on a character or concept from the show without taking the time to join a discord server

      As mentioned, Discord is very easy and quick to access. Indeed, the biggest hurdle is registering an account (much like for this wiki), but once that's done, you can make these comments easily. Here's a demonstration I made on YouTube, though the process would be much quicker because I purposefully created a sandbox environment where my device hasn't saved details that make entry convenient.

      SaltyPearl7152 wrote: then what does "opting out of discussions" mean exactly? i dont actually know

      Discussions (not the actual "talking/convo" discussion) is an entirely different feature altogether that will eventually replace the forums. That is what will be rejected until a better moderation system is possible on there (such as a wikiactivity like on the wiki system in general; this doesn't exist on Discussions, making it extremely difficult to moderate).

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    • 1. i know how to use discord i use it every day, however i dont join servers just to post one meme, it crowds my server list and wastes my time

      2. thank you, i did not understand what the difference between those two things were

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    • For number 1, you don't have to do what I did in the video. There are thought-out discussions as well as other quirky things, as seen in the video. As for crowding your server list and "wasting your time," this is now down to your opinion rather than an objective flaw with Discord. It's why Forums still exists, and you're not forced to use the Discord.

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    • Shame the forums are getting retired, most of my youth (such as it was!) was spent on classic Internet message boards!  But hey-ho, times move on 👍 Just gave discord another try and it's still... ahem... not for me 😉 I find it too confusing and noisy 🤣 Hopefully Discussions will work out as a nice replacement though once it's enabled 🙂

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    • SaltyPearl7152 wrote: 1. i know how to use discord i use it every day, however i dont join servers just to post one meme, it crowds my server list and wastes my time

      Then you must go without. Your attitude in particular is one that has come to my attention about this topic. If you are displeased with the situation, being evidently mopey will not sway our decision as a staff team.

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    • Ke2083 wrote: Hopefully Discussions will work out as a nice replacement though once it's enabled 🙂

      For a preview of what Discussions would be like, you can visit the Disney Wiki (or other wikis which have it enabled, primarily the new ones).

      Also, it's good to see you gave Discord a try.

      EDIT: I personally think Discussions would also be a great replacement for article comments, while we could have DPL wiki-style forums to replace Special:Forums. That's just my idea, though, and not an official plan at the moment. I need to give Discussions a lot more time, thought, and experimenting before deciding with certainty.

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    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      Ke2083 wrote: Hopefully Discussions will work out as a nice replacement though once it's enabled 🙂

      For a preview of what Discussions would be like, you can visit the Disney Wiki (or other wikis which have it enabled, primarily the new ones).

      Also, it's good to see you gave Discord a try.

      Ooh I'll have a shoofty - thank you :) love the new colours on the site BTW.  A nice visual refresh with a nice amount of contrast 🙂👍

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    • Piierogii wrote:

      SaltyPearl7152 wrote: 1. i know how to use discord i use it every day, however i dont join servers just to post one meme, it crowds my server list and wastes my time

      Then you must go without. Your attitude in particular is one that has come to my attention about this topic. If you are displeased with the situation, being evidently mopey will not sway our decision as a staff team.

      to be fair it doesn't effect my life one way or another i don't care that much, i'm just saying there's a very good reason why people like the simplicity of comment sections

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    • Pizuliblue wrote:
      Hmm..what happen to the beuatful BG? I'm just asking here. :)

      Explaination

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    • about the discord thing: some of us don't use discord (cough cough ME cough cough) I've tried using it but I just don't like it very much and would rather not use discord.

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    • we kinda already went through that whole disscuision

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    • Sharayna wrote: This wiki will most likely be opting out of Discussions because of their poor moderation system.

      What? They let you opt out of Discussions now? ._. None of the admins at the wiki I admin (who responded anyway--that wiki's slowly been dying) wanted Discussions, really, when the staff contact for them told us we'd be getting them within the week some time ago (a year or two ago). We got them anyway. The most they said they'd do is re-enable wiki-style forums for us if we decided we wanted that as an accessible discussion avenue.

      As for Discussions "wiki activity"/"recent changes" (since that was called out in specific) if you ever end up with Discussions and haven't managed to opt out: there are a few scripts on Dev Wiki that I think are allowed to be used wiki-wide (so don't need to be added to user JS for each individual wishing to have them) but those aren't official so I don't know if it's what you might want.

      (WIR Wiki uses DiscussionsRC (half because it was one of the two scripts available when I added it, half because I prefer Recent Changes style instead of Wiki Activity style... what in the world, WIR Wiki is the use case example on that page?! who did this), but there are a few other ones nowadays too as listed here; for example, DiscussionsActivity is one that seems to replicate the look of Wiki Activity. You could theoretically have all three of the ones I see added at once but that'd be a bit redundant... There are a couple things there that aren't RC/WA but might be useful for moderation in theory.)

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    • Things have calmed down significantly, so I'm not even really sure if I should post this comment, but I feel it should be said.

      Now.. I'm just starting to feel really... sad. Not only about the comments (though, I don't even really care anymore at this point), but mostly about the fact that the mods are doing the best they can, and are being attacked left and right for it. This is a project of love, and we're just... well... just read this thread and you'll see what I mean.

      Sure, they could've warned us, but they've acknowledged that, and plan to not make that mistake again.

      Sure, they could've gotten community input before the change, but they've also acknowledged that.

      Sure, Discord might not be the best choice for some people, but they've acknowledged that and have given alternatives.

      Sure, it may seem like our thoughts don't matter, but they've assured us time and time again theat they do.

      I could go on, but the point is, they've explained they're side, and have been calmly trying to understand ours, and we've just been attacking them. This is a change they felt was necessary. They understand that some people might view it as an overreaction (myself included at one point), but they're trying their darndest as human beings to make their side known. And, at least to me, they have. I'm still sad to see the comments go, and I'd love to have them back, don't get me wrong, but I feel like I finally fully understand why they were removed, and, I'm okay with that reasoning. I support their decision. All of this back and forth needs to stop, it's getting us nowhere. We can still not like the change, it's our opinion, but just stating the same thing over and over, when they've already addressed it... I feel like, that's only really validating their choice further. Look, I'm sorry if this is too late, and doesn't matter because no one's talking about this anymore, but I needed to get this off my chest. Being hyper-empathetic, I feel for all sides of an argument, which is why I'm neutral (or close to) on most things. But at this point, I... I can't keep ignoring the mods' side. They're running this server out of passion, with little incentive, and are probably being unincentivized. But yet they're still here, trying to make sure this wiki is run smoothly and civily. And... I applaud them for that. And no longer wil be taking part in any discussion/argument over this decision.

      Again, sorry if this is irrelevant at this point. I just need to say it.

      Great job mods', keep it up. ^^

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    • I know from personal experience how hard users can throw their toys out of the pram when changes like this happen!  Being a website admin is often a thankless task.

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    • uhhhhhhhhhhhhh that was so........uh.................................(I was gonna say an alternitive to a cuss word, but I can't.)

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    • eh yeah i can sympathize there, i had to lock the permission for the @everyone command on my discord server some time back because of how people were abusing it

      i'm not saying i think this is a good decision, i still think it isn't, but i can understand that people make not so good choices out of desparation and feeling out of options

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    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      Discussions (not the actual "talking/convo" discussion) is an entirely different feature altogether that will eventually replace the forums. That is what will be rejected until a better moderation system is possible on there (such as a wikiactivity like on the wiki system in general; this doesn't exist on Discussions, making it extremely difficult to moderate).

      You can add DiscussionsActivity or DiscussionsFeed to this wiki's MediaWiki:ImportJS page

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    • I already said this upthread but (to clarify) I'd recommend DiscussionsRC over DiscussionsFeed; the latter seems cleaner, slightly more informative, and more regularly updated. (But every "not quite Recent Changes" for Discussions is effectively useless if Discussions isn't currently enabled here.)

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    • I have calmed down from my original post, but the change still really upsets me. I have joined the Discord, the biggest downside would be the mass swearing, but I digress. It doesn’t feel like there’s even that much of a use for visiting pages. I’m not sad, or mad anymore, I’m just kinda empty. I do definitely think I might quit the wiki, there just isn’t anything left for me.

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    • Elementalorbis wrote: about the discord thing: some of us don't use discord (cough cough ME cough cough) I've tried using it but I just don't like it very much and would rather not use discord.

      No. One. Forced. Yall. To. Use. Discord.

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    • This is like the worst update we’ve ever had.

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    • KameronDoughty wrote: Things have calmed down significantly, so I'm not even really sure if I should post this comment, but I feel it should be said.

      Now.. I'm just starting to feel really... sad. Not only about the comments (though, I don't even really care anymore at this point), but mostly about the fact that the mods are doing the best they can, and are being attacked left and right for it. This is a project of love, and we're just... well... just read this thread and you'll see what I mean.

      Sure, they could've warned us, but they've acknowledged that, and plan to not make that mistake again.

      Sure, they could've gotten community input before the change, but they've also acknowledged that.

      Sure, Discord might not be the best choice for some people, but they've acknowledged that and have given alternatives.

      Sure, it may seem like our thoughts don't matter, but they've assured us time and time again theat they do.

      I could go on, but the point is, they've explained they're side, and have been calmly trying to understand ours, and we've just been attacking them. This is a change they felt was necessary. They understand that some people might view it as an overreaction (myself included at one point), but they're trying their darndest as human beings to make their side known. And, at least to me, they have. I'm still sad to see the comments go, and I'd love to have them back, don't get me wrong, but I feel like I finally fully understand why they were removed, and, I'm okay with that reasoning. I support their decision. All of this back and forth needs to stop, it's getting us nowhere. We can still not like the change, it's our opinion, but just stating the same thing over and over, when they've already addressed it... I feel like, that's only really validating their choice further. Look, I'm sorry if this is too late, and doesn't matter because no one's talking about this anymore, but I needed to get this off my chest. Being hyper-empathetic, I feel for all sides of an argument, which is why I'm neutral (or close to) on most things. But at this point, I... I can't keep ignoring the mods' side. They're running this server out of passion, with little incentive, and are probably being unincentivized. But yet they're still here, trying to make sure this wiki is run smoothly and civily. And... I applaud them for that. And no longer wil be taking part in any discussion/argument over this decision.

      Again, sorry if this is irrelevant at this point. I just need to say it.

      Great job mods', keep it up. ^^

      Wow, I will have to agree.

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote:
      I have calmed down from my original post, but the change still really upsets me. I have joined the Discord, the biggest downside would be the mass swearing, but I digress. It doesn’t feel like there’s even that much of a use for visiting pages. I’m not sad, or mad anymore, I’m just kinda empty. I do definitely think I might quit the wiki, there just isn’t anything left for me.

      Aw don't do that - you and I have some good chats in the forum sometimes!  Stick around and help me cause mischief 😎

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    • i have disagreements but i don’t like arguing :)

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    • StereoTitan877 wrote:

      Elementalorbis wrote: about the discord thing: some of us don't use discord (cough cough ME cough cough) I've tried using it but I just don't like it very much and would rather not use discord.

      No. One. Forced. Yall. To. Use. Discord.

      The overusage of periods doesn't really help your point.

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    • so are comments never coming back? there was some good art in some of the comment sections, and most of the comments were fine. why not just disable the comments on the controversial characters? sorry but this seems inefficient to me

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    • yeah i agree there, and as for the point of "controversial" characters being introduced, call it "offensive" as much as you want, but i think anyone can tell which characters are gonna be the more controversial ones

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    • https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:1007224

      people really need to see this, it seems like nobody notices this no matter where i say it

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    • SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
      https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:1007224

      people really need to see this, it seems like nobody notices this no matter where i say it

      Not really the place for that, Salty

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    • Honestly, even before comments were disabled things just weren't fun here anymore. When I came here the staff used to change the wallpaper and theme to match the holiday season, we used to have episode discussions and preview discussions. We haven't had episode discussions in so long. We also don't play silly holiday games anymore.

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
      https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:1007224
      people really need to see this, it seems like nobody notices this no matter where i say it
      Not really the place for that, Salty

      then how do i draw attention to this? my mention of it has gone unnoticed for weeks now

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    • SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
      Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      SaltyPearl7152 wrote:
      https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:1007224
      people really need to see this, it seems like nobody notices this no matter where i say it
      Not really the place for that, Salty
      then how do i draw attention to this? my mention of it has gone unnoticed for weeks now

      Have you talked to a staff member directly?

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    • Ke2083 wrote:

      DetectiveAquamarine wrote:
      I have calmed down from my original post, but the change still really upsets me. I have joined the Discord, the biggest downside would be the mass swearing, but I digress. It doesn’t feel like there’s even that much of a use for visiting pages. I’m not sad, or mad anymore, I’m just kinda empty. I do definitely think I might quit the wiki, there just isn’t anything left for me.

      Aw don't do that - you and I have some good chats in the forum sometimes!  Stick around and help me cause mischief 😎

      Seeing you reply honestly brightened up my day. In all honesty, you are one of my favourite people to discuss stuff with on the wiki!

      Quitting might have been an overreaction, but I still feel the same way. I might not quit, but I do think that I’ll be taking a long break after Future ends.

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    • Crossover Enthusiast wrote:

      StereoTitan877 wrote:

      Elementalorbis wrote: about the discord thing: some of us don't use discord (cough cough ME cough cough) I've tried using it but I just don't like it very much and would rather not use discord.

      No. One. Forced. Yall. To. Use. Discord.

      The overusage of periods doesn't really help your point.

      Because it doesn't.

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      Honestly, even before comments were disabled things just weren't fun here anymore. When I came here the staff used to change the wallpaper and theme to match the holiday season, we used to have episode discussions and preview discussions. We haven't had episode discussions in so long. We also don't play silly holiday games anymore.

      What kind of games?

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    • Cheechdog2 wrote:
      Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      Honestly, even before comments were disabled things just weren't fun here anymore. When I came here the staff used to change the wallpaper and theme to match the holiday season, we used to have episode discussions and preview discussions. We haven't had episode discussions in so long. We also don't play silly holiday games anymore.
      What kind of games?

      Like the 12 days of christmas, SU addition

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    • StereoTitan877 wrote:

      Crossover Enthusiast wrote:

      StereoTitan877 wrote:

      Elementalorbis wrote: about the discord thing: some of us don't use discord (cough cough ME cough cough) I've tried using it but I just don't like it very much and would rather not use discord.

      No. One. Forced. Yall. To. Use. Discord.
      The overusage of periods doesn't really help your point.
      Because it doesn't.

      What??

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    • comments were  great because you could have actual, active discussions there. when i post in the forums i get ignored and nobody replies lmao 

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    • Mango-Pango wrote: You can add DiscussionsActivity or DiscussionsFeed to this wiki's MediaWiki:ImportJS page

      Oh I know those exists (along with Citrus' suggestions), but they hate adblockers (particularly on the DNS level) and are currently in beta testing for many years. I look forward to an official tool, but these are better than nothing, I suppose.

      DetectiveAquamarine wrote: I have calmed down from my original post, but the change still really upsets me. I have joined the Discord, the biggest downside would be the mass swearing, but I digress. It doesn’t feel like there’s even that much of a use for visiting pages. I’m not sad, or mad anymore, I’m just kinda empty. I do definitely think I might quit the wiki, there just isn’t anything left for me.

      There are still plenty of things to do, though this concerns me. Is editing the articles themselves to improve the information not what a wiki is about? If the wiki was all about socialising, we would be overpowered by the Steven Universe Reddit immediately, which is a full-blown social media site.

      AchiToki wrote: so are comments never coming back? there was some good art in some of the comment sections, and most of the comments were fine. why not just disable the comments on the controversial characters? sorry but this seems inefficient to me

      You can CTRL + F the same words in that question and find the answer somewhere in the thread.

      SaltyPearl7152 wrote: https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:1007224

      people really need to see this, it seems like nobody notices this no matter where i say it

      The problem has been sent to the artist's message wall for quicker contact.

      Steven Bomb 17 wrote: we used to have episode discussions and preview discussions. We haven't had episode discussions in so long. We also don't play silly holiday games anymore.

      1. ... I think that was just being forgetful, but I'm not too sure. We did have discussion threads frequently but not for Steven Universe Future. I think it was just forgotten, so I'll remind the discussion mods and admins about it when more episodes come out. Sorry about that.

      As for the holiday games, those frequently occur on the Discord server. The latest example is "secret santa". Big problems, however, are people not following the rules regarding those games, so the result is a failure on what is intended. This has happened on numerous occasions, which deincentivises the staff from doing more games, art competitions, and so forth.

      AchiToki wrote: comments were  great because you could have actual, active discussions there. when i post in the forums i get ignored and nobody replies lmao 

      Perhaps, forums was inactive because the article comments were satisfactory enough. Perhaps after some time, people will use the forums slightly more. I'll be responding to more forum posts in due time.

        Loading editor
    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      Mango-Pango wrote: You can add DiscussionsActivity or DiscussionsFeed to this wiki's MediaWiki:ImportJS page

      Oh I know those exists (along with Citrus' suggestions), but they hate adblockers (particularly on the DNS level) and are currently in beta testing for many years. I look forward to an official tool, but these are better than nothing, I suppose.

      Also, we already import RecentChangesMultiple which has support for discussions.

        Loading editor
    • Why not we do this instead?

      fandom.com/f

      Just like the OK KO wiki?

      Bad Idea?

        Loading editor
    • InazumAzure wrote:
      Why not we do this instead?

      fandom.com/f

      Just like the OK KO wiki?

      Bad Idea?

      I understand from previous comments (above) that it poses moderation challenges, hence this wiki has opted out of it and is keeping the Forums feature for now.

        Loading editor
    • R.I.P. Comments. I'm gonna miss those. :(

        Loading editor
    • GemstoneEnthusiast wrote:
      R.I.P. Comments. I'm gonna miss those. :(

      Same. :(

        Loading editor
    • I Agree

        Loading editor
    • Me too

        Loading editor
    • It won’t be the same.

        Loading editor
    • Agreed

        Loading editor
    • yall shoulda held a vote so the actual community that keeps this wiki running could  all decide. removing comments lowkey makes me wanna leave, seeing all the art and  theories for just one character was so fun and made everything organized.

        Loading editor
    • Okay, I'mma be honest, this "upgrade" is stupid. Why can't we comment anymore?!? How are people gonna share their renders?!? And HOW are we gonna talk about the latest episodes without comments? And most importantly, can I start a vote to bring back the comments?

        Loading editor
    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:
      Okay, I'mma be honest, this "upgrade" is stupid. Why can't we comment anymore?!? How are people gonna share their renders?!? And HOW are we gonna talk about the latest episodes without comments? And most importantly, can I start a vote to bring back the comments?

      This has all been adressed earlier in the thread, and the vote for the comments can be found here.

        Loading editor
    • You guys should know better than anyone than the fandom has always been toxic. But does everyone need to pay the price? And what about the other forums and Discord? It's not like they won't be filled with the same toxicity.

      I do believe it's unfair and you should have warned us.

        Loading editor
    • Drew3478 wrote: You guys should know better than anyone than the fandom has always been toxic. But does everyone need to pay the price? And what about the other forums and Discord? It's not like they won't be filled with the same toxicity.

      I do believe it's unfair and you should have warned us.

      This criticism has already been addressed as well. To remind people, we know that the same toxicity could occur on both spaces. That's why by removing the comments, there's also the intent to have less places to moderate, as these spaces are given better resources and oversight. This has been stated many times in the thread. Only the location of communications has changed, not your ability to communicate.

        Loading editor
    • it’s more convenient  to scroll to the bottom of a related page (or press comments button) and put your render and art and theories and “useless comments”

      I dont like discord and I still can’t figure out how to get to the forums without a link

      i keep scrolling to the bottom of pages and waiting for comments to load

        Loading editor
    • Tabbyboop wrote: I still can’t figure out how to get to the forums without a link

      *Blinks* Forums is present at the top of every single webpage on the wiki.

        Loading editor
    • Its not there anymore though 

        Loading editor
    • E0568740-046E-4CBF-B4D9-B47163A19C93
        Loading editor
    • Forum img
        Loading editor
    • I don’t see it and that’s not even the background anymore

        Loading editor
    • Tabbyboop wrote:

      E0568740-046E-4CBF-B4D9-B47163A19C93

      Oh. I've never seen this before. Would the forums be linked in "Explore" instead?

        Loading editor
    • No i’ve checked all of them none of them say forums

        Loading editor
    • I found out the problem, hopefully. In your Special:Preferences, your "landing page" is set to "community feeds", right? I have tested this myself and can replicate the problem. The solution is to set your landing page to literally anything else (The Steven Universe Wiki does not have a community feed, so the landing page preference is useless).

      Perhaps, for the unaware (since this is the default landing page for all new accounts), there is one thing that article comments has a slight advantage for. Once the preference is changed, however, the forums remain golden.

      Hope this helps, and to those who have the same issue!

        Loading editor
    • Thank

        Loading editor
    • TheNinjaOnTheTop wrote:
      Now yes, I get tired of people talking about how flawless PD is or talking about Shep's bio sex and so on and so forth but most of the comments were fine, so why do we need to remove all comments on all articles?
      Exactly!
        Loading editor
    • LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: They weren't just for discussions. They were where people could give one-off opinions, and harmless jokes.

      ["Comments thread"] Whilst the forums are better for long discussions (like this one), the comments are better for one-off comments people want to make.

      I'm responding to this and this, though I didn't for a reason.

      I didn't address that because it is an opinion, and I cannot change opinions. I can only address the criticisms that are considered objective, not subjective, because I want to convince people of the facts, not state another opinion that goes nowhere. I am sorry, though, and I should have addressed what is still a legitimate concern that calls for investigation.

      You mention that not many people will see one-off comments or that article comments are better for them, but I don't see evidence of this. I see that the activity and structure of threads are relatively the same as the comments. Where there are some comments that receive no or few replies, there are also many threads that receive little or no replies for the exact same topics. The only difference is that the location of each comment being made is different, which is the same as going to another character page to find other comments.

      This is someone's quick opinion on Snow Day, which has received plenty of replies. This is someone wondering if Pumpkin has died. This is a joke thread on "proteccing larimar", and this is no different to how comments encouraged such comments in the first place. So, from what I am seeing, the forums are replicating the article comments nicely, and it is only when users stop treating forums differently that the forums come to life.

      LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: Sure there were some transphobic jerks and troll, but those comments could be deleted by the admins.

      Soooo, soooo many were deleted, but they just kept coming. There was no stopping it, and the moderators can be a minute too late, and come the people who are already offended and continue to talk about it (it takes refreshing the page once). As stated on this thread many times, the comments you have seen before being disabled were those left behind after cleanup. There were otherwise dozens of comments deleted in an attempt to housekeep. Regardless, they wouldn't stop, so if they aren't stopping, they may as well happen in a place that's better moderated (best case scenario: just stop the bad comments entirely, please).

      LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: ["Comments thread"] If we had to rely on forums just to say "I like Lapis" or "That episode was great" or even "look at this picture I made", then we would have loads of unnecessary threads being made that a lot of people aren't going to be bother to look at, as opposed to comments which are all easy to find.

      I linked the "protecc larimar" thread earlier to demonstrate that this hypothesised scenario doesn't exist yet. Preferably, people try to find the thread topic to make their comment on, such as the "appreciating Lapis thread" or similar (funnily enough, that just appeared some minutes ago, so respond there!), but it's not the end of Forums if it acts like comments.

      Jacobacranmer wrote: ["Comments" thread] Okay, but comments sections are generally supposed to be use ONLY to discuss changes that needed to be made to the pages. All that other junk just clutters up the comment sections

      It's easier than one thinks to determine the truth of this. Just check the forum and comment policy that existed since 2014. According to the policy, nonsensical, inappropriate, off-topic, and certain "joke" replies are subject to editing and/or deletion. This means that a huge chunk of article comments should have been deleted since the start, but they have been allowed due to the huge burden on staff resources and obvious community backlash on "censorship".

      Citrusellaeditswikis wrote: ["Comments" thread] Without doing special things like scripting (which this wiki didn't do), the comments extension will hide the button to go to the talk page (making the only ways to access it being a link someone puts somewhere, the search, or typing it directly in your browser's address bar). Can't have discussion of much of anything if the interface doesn't even let you know the page exists.

      This is a very good observation. I didn't know this, and I think Fandom needs to stop hiding things when certain features are enabled. I had to find out why someone didn't have forums appear in the navigations, and it's due to the same invisibility. Christ almighty, Fandom.

      DetectiveAquamarine wrote: ["Comments" thread] Pictogram voting comment Comment Sorry, but these quote towers are honestly a bit frustrating, you guys are discussing, but the quote towers are a bit out of hand.

      Please try not to overquote.

      As the forum and comment policy states, any reply displaying over two quotes are subject to editing or deletion. As a result, many people on this thread are violating the rules. I personally think the rule should clarify that it's only these type of overquoting that is discouraged (My quotes are separated with my own comments, which look neater). That should be its own vote thread.

      Zacharyman1mil wrote: ["Comments" thread] Looking for an argument that proves comments superior is pointless as comments are not the same those. the comments are for minor things pertaining to a page from possible changes to personal opinions and many would often prefer leaving a small thought in the comments as opposed to leaving it in a discord(where things get swept away in a flood of other comments and people talking at once) creating a small discussion that happens over time without being lost. each thing is for a different type of conversation and depends on what the user is looking for. having comments did not get in the way of people discussing changes they could still do that just fine.

      As for removing them i see no reason this was necessary in the first place. i know you have a distaste for the trolls/spam/and gender confusion/arguments(which that one is inevitable with a show like this) and i know things like the lauren zuke incident is a blemish on the fandom but removing comments benefits the wiki in no way. all this does is just wipe away the things you dont like and dont want to be seen. getting rid of this has no benefit as the comments are nothing more than small talk that viewers could go down and look at if they wanted(they arnt going to scroll down and see some weird gender conversation or neck spam and start hating its existence) the most removing the comments will do is likely lower overall wiki activity(you would be surprised how such a seemingly minor feature being removed can have a big impact)

      no matter what the comments could only of been a neutral or beneficial thing for the wiki as all the negatives are purely based on distaste and annoyances for just the commenter's who would have that getting in the way. but if you hate what the comments were that much than feel free to have your way.

      1. I have addressed this criticism already, except for the "preference" or "would instead" part (since it is a subjective and manipulable opinion; and to those asking if I will respond to further opinions, I will not). The second part with Discord being flooded by other comments has been addressed here in this screenshot of my comment on the thread earlier.

      2. I have addressed this partially on this thread already (combining communications into one space makes moderation more effective, as resources are less split between redundant communications features. There is also the opportunity for users to use better tools, simply put, but this goes into opinion territory too often). For the unaddressed part ("would be surprised how such a seemingly minor feature being removed can have a big impact"), I am already aware. Fandom has a feature known as "WAM" that tracks the wikis health in terms of activity. So far, the wiki is around the 40-50th place overall and 10-15 on the movie/tv vertical since having comments removed, where it was previously around 10-20 overall and 3-8 on the vertical.

      Indeed, there has been a drop in activity, but the drop wasn't very significant. The wiki is still pretty active on the forums and editing spaces and also pretty active on the Discord (not considered by WAM). The result is that the removal of comments created a noticable but benign impact on activity. Regardless of activity, the wiki encourages good comments over activity. When episodes release, people will comment countdowns or "hype", which aren't good quality comments (and should be put onto a hype thread instead so quality comments aren't "flooded" down). Therefore, could the reduced activity actually be the subtracting of inappropriate activity?

      3. I may have misinterpreted this comment, so I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I believe I have addressed this on the thread already. To clarify, all of these problems can also happen on the forums and discord, so removing the article comments to "stop" this problem is not the only reason article comments were disabled.

      LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: But they were memories. I was nice looking back at old comments to remember what we said. Know they're all gone.

      ["Comments thread"] The comments were memories and part of why people even became users in the first place. It was nice to look back on old comments we made in the past, as well as look at older comments made before a certain reveal. But know they are gone and that's sad.

      Citrusellaeditswikis wrote: Further, I don't get what's so special about having a catch-all area for anything vaguely related to the page/topic at hand directly underneath it on an informational/encyclopedic website, even one discussing a topic with a fandom like many Wikia wikis including this one are. *Steven voice* ...Is it me?

      I've given that a thought: make comments visible, but new comments are impossible. It satisfies the crowd that just wants to read through them for memories, but it still redirects people to the forums and Discord for future comments. That decision isn't up to me, though. You'll need to contact an admin/bureaucrat about that. In my personal opinion, I like this idea, but I don't know how to do it.

      As with "part of why people even became users in the first place", this is more a question of interest than to point out wrong choices (which it's not). Why choose Fandom over something like Reddit? The Steven Universe Reddit is all about socialising and is far more active than the wiki, as it is a social media site to the tea. The Steven Universe Wiki aims to be a database of information, and it's only coincidence that it has community features that are half-baked compared to genuine social media sites (such as Discord, which this wiki has). While a hybrid site is itself attractive, if the only reason users came to Fandom is to socialise instead of editing articles and helping to build this database for Steven Universe, then there are far better sites for socialising.

      I feel like this question is a good note to end this comment on, as the removal of the article comments feature has really called into question the reason people are here and what people see as the purpose of the Steven Universe Wiki.


      FINAL NOTE, because this is important. I don't say what I say to be ignored. To everyone, read what I have said, everything that I and the other staff have said, before making a response. Please expand on what I have said with things like "Well, my experience on the Discord server suggests otherwise, and here is the evidence", but please don't make me repeat myself constantly. I have said this phrase and similar too many times: "as stated many times" / "This was already addressed". People have accused staff of being lazy or just don't want to listen to users, but I argue it is the opposite for those specific people. Not everyone has made such accusations or the bad ones (there are good-will ones), and we appreciate the respect, but do know that there is likely an answer for you here. If not, comment away.

      Thanks in advance!

        Loading editor
    • I'm sorry if this specific question has been asked already (and I know you guys are probably getting tired of getting pings from this specific thread), but what is the general rule now for where to post/find art and PNGs for certain characters since comments are no more. Is there a specific forum for this or no?

        Loading editor
    • Hammer-draws wrote: I'm sorry if this specific question has been asked already (and I know you guys are probably getting tired of getting pings from this specific thread), but what is the general rule now for where to post/find art and PNGs for certain characters since comments are no more. Is there a specific forum for this or no?

      1. There is no general rule I can say is confirmed yet, especially for posting "art" in general. I have brought this up with other staff, but the discussion hasn't moved yet. As of now, you could use the Misc Board to create threads where requests are heard (example). I'm not as sure about posting any type of art. Fanon work and other unofficial art (not renders, essentially) should be directed onto the Fanon Wiki instead. Renders could preferably be on the wikia discussions board, ask staff discussions board.

      ... it's unclear at the moment, but I'll push for an answer, and I may get back to you.

      P.S. If you or anyone else is annoyed with getting pinged of this thread, you can unfollow pages by clicking the "following" button until it just says "follow".

        Loading editor
    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: They weren't just for discussions. They were where people could give one-off opinions, and harmless jokes.

      ["Comments thread"] Whilst the forums are better for long discussions (like this one), the comments are better for one-off comments people want to make.

      I'm responding to this and this, though I didn't for a reason.

      I didn't address that because it is an opinion, and I cannot change opinions. I can only address the criticisms that are considered objective, not subjective, because I want to convince people of the facts, not state another opinion that goes nowhere. I am sorry, though, and I should have addressed what is still a legitimate concern that calls for investigation.

      You mention that not many people will see one-off comments or that article comments are better for them, but I don't see evidence of this. I see that the activity and structure of threads are relatively the same as the comments. Where there are some comments that receive no or few replies, there are also many threads that receive little or no replies for the exact same topics. The only difference is that the location of each comment being made is different, which is the same as going to another character page to find other comments.

      This is someone's quick opinion on Snow Day, which has received plenty of replies. This is someone wondering if Pumpkin has died. This is a joke thread on "proteccing larimar", and this is no different to how comments encouraged such comments in the first place. So, from what I am seeing, the forums are replicating the article comments nicely, and it is only when users stop treating forums differently that the forums come to life.

      LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: Sure there were some transphobic jerks and troll, but those comments could be deleted by the admins.

      Soooo, soooo many were deleted, but they just kept coming. There was no stopping it, and the moderators can be a minute too late, and come the people who are already offended and continue to talk about it (it takes refreshing the page once). As stated on this thread many times, the comments you have seen before being disabled were those left behind after cleanup. There were otherwise dozens of comments deleted in an attempt to housekeep. Regardless, they wouldn't stop, so if they aren't stopping, they may as well happen in a place that's better moderated (best case scenario: just stop the bad comments entirely, please).

      LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: ["Comments thread"] If we had to rely on forums just to say "I like Lapis" or "That episode was great" or even "look at this picture I made", then we would have loads of unnecessary threads being made that a lot of people aren't going to be bother to look at, as opposed to comments which are all easy to find.

      I linked the "protecc larimar" thread earlier to demonstrate that this hypothesised scenario doesn't exist yet. Preferably, people try to find the thread topic to make their comment on, such as the "appreciating Lapis thread" or similar (funnily enough, that just appeared some minutes ago, so respond there!), but it's not the end of Forums if it acts like comments.

      Jacobacranmer wrote: ["Comments" thread] Okay, but comments sections are generally supposed to be use ONLY to discuss changes that needed to be made to the pages. All that other junk just clutters up the comment sections

      It's easier than one thinks to determine the truth of this. Just check the forum and comment policy that existed since 2014. According to the policy, nonsensical, inappropriate, off-topic, and certain "joke" replies are subject to editing and/or deletion. This means that a huge chunk of article comments should have been deleted since the start, but they have been allowed due to the huge burden on staff resources and obvious community backlash on "censorship".

      Citrusellaeditswikis wrote: ["Comments" thread] Without doing special things like scripting (which this wiki didn't do), the comments extension will hide the button to go to the talk page (making the only ways to access it being a link someone puts somewhere, the search, or typing it directly in your browser's address bar). Can't have discussion of much of anything if the interface doesn't even let you know the page exists.

      This is a very good observation. I didn't know this, and I think Fandom needs to stop hiding things when certain features are enabled. I had to find out why someone didn't have forums appear in the navigations, and it's due to the same invisibility. Christ almighty, Fandom.

      DetectiveAquamarine wrote: ["Comments" thread] Pictogram voting comment Comment Sorry, but these quote towers are honestly a bit frustrating, you guys are discussing, but the quote towers are a bit out of hand.

      Please try not to overquote.

      As the forum and comment policy states, any reply displaying over two quotes are subject to editing or deletion. As a result, many people on this thread are violating the rules. I personally think the rule should clarify that it's only these type of overquoting that is discouraged (My quotes are separated with my own comments, which look neater). That should be its own vote thread.

      Zacharyman1mil wrote: ["Comments" thread] Looking for an argument that proves comments superior is pointless as comments are not the same those. the comments are for minor things pertaining to a page from possible changes to personal opinions and many would often prefer leaving a small thought in the comments as opposed to leaving it in a discord(where things get swept away in a flood of other comments and people talking at once) creating a small discussion that happens over time without being lost. each thing is for a different type of conversation and depends on what the user is looking for. having comments did not get in the way of people discussing changes they could still do that just fine.

      As for removing them i see no reason this was necessary in the first place. i know you have a distaste for the trolls/spam/and gender confusion/arguments(which that one is inevitable with a show like this) and i know things like the lauren zuke incident is a blemish on the fandom but removing comments benefits the wiki in no way. all this does is just wipe away the things you dont like and dont want to be seen. getting rid of this has no benefit as the comments are nothing more than small talk that viewers could go down and look at if they wanted(they arnt going to scroll down and see some weird gender conversation or neck spam and start hating its existence) the most removing the comments will do is likely lower overall wiki activity(you would be surprised how such a seemingly minor feature being removed can have a big impact)

      no matter what the comments could only of been a neutral or beneficial thing for the wiki as all the negatives are purely based on distaste and annoyances for just the commenter's who would have that getting in the way. but if you hate what the comments were that much than feel free to have your way.

      1. I have addressed this criticism already, except for the "preference" or "would instead" part (since it is a subjective and manipulable opinion; and to those asking if I will respond to further opinions, I will not). The second part with Discord being flooded by other comments has been addressed here in this screenshot of my comment on the thread earlier.

      2. I have addressed this partially on this thread already (combining communications into one space makes moderation more effective, as resources are less split between redundant communications features. There is also the opportunity for users to use better tools, simply put, but this goes into opinion territory too often). For the unaddressed part ("would be surprised how such a seemingly minor feature being removed can have a big impact"), I am already aware. Fandom has a feature known as "WAM" that tracks the wikis health in terms of activity. So far, the wiki is around the 40-50th place overall and 10-15 on the movie/tv vertical since having comments removed, where it was previously around 10-20 overall and 3-8 on the vertical.

      Indeed, there has been a drop in activity, but the drop wasn't very significant. The wiki is still pretty active on the forums and editing spaces and also pretty active on the Discord (not considered by WAM). The result is that the removal of comments created a noticable but benign impact on activity. Regardless of activity, the wiki encourages good comments over activity. When episodes release, people will comment countdowns or "hype", which aren't good quality comments (and should be put onto a hype thread instead so quality comments aren't "flooded" down). Therefore, could the reduced activity actually be the subtracting of inappropriate activity?

      3. I may have misinterpreted this comment, so I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I believe I have addressed this on the thread already. To clarify, all of these problems can also happen on the forums and discord, so removing the article comments to "stop" this problem is not the only reason article comments were disabled.

      LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: But they were memories. I was nice looking back at old comments to remember what we said. Know they're all gone.

      ["Comments thread"] The comments were memories and part of why people even became users in the first place. It was nice to look back on old comments we made in the past, as well as look at older comments made before a certain reveal. But know they are gone and that's sad.

      Citrusellaeditswikis wrote: Further, I don't get what's so special about having a catch-all area for anything vaguely related to the page/topic at hand directly underneath it on an informational/encyclopedic website, even one discussing a topic with a fandom like many Wikia wikis including this one are. *Steven voice* ...Is it me?

      I've given that a thought: make comments visible, but new comments are impossible. It satisfies the crowd that just wants to read through them for memories, but it still redirects people to the forums and Discord for future comments. That decision isn't up to me, though. You'll need to contact an admin/bureaucrat about that. In my personal opinion, I like this idea, but I don't know how to do it.

      As with "part of why people even became users in the first place", this is more a question of interest than to point out wrong choices (which it's not). Why choose Fandom over something like Reddit? The Steven Universe Reddit is all about socialising and is far more active than the wiki, as it is a social media site to the tea. The Steven Universe Wiki aims to be a database of information, and it's only coincidence that it has community features that are half-baked compared to genuine social media sites (such as Discord, which this wiki has). While a hybrid site is itself attractive, if the only reason users came to Fandom is to socialise instead of editing articles and helping to build this database for Steven Universe, then there are far better sites for socialising.

      I feel like this question is a good note to end this comment on, as the removal of the article comments feature has really called into question the reason people are here and what people see as the purpose of the Steven Universe Wiki.


      FINAL NOTE, because this is important. I don't say what I say to be ignored. To everyone, read what I have said, everything that I and the other staff have said, before making a response. Please expand on what I have said with things like "Well, my experience on the Discord server suggests otherwise, and here is the evidence", but please don't make me repeat myself constantly. I have said this phrase and similar too many times: "as stated many times" / "This was already addressed". People have accused staff of being lazy or just don't want to listen to users, but I argue it is the opposite for those specific people. Not everyone has made such accusations or the bad ones (there are good-will ones), and we appreciate the respect, but do know that there is likely an answer for you here. If not, comment away.

      Thanks in advance!

      Thank you for addressing my concerns. Although I still think the comments should come back, you do make some good arguments.

        Loading editor
    • That's a lot of damage

        Loading editor
    • not for me. *dodged*

        Loading editor
    • Please, OwOmaster, stay on topic.

        Loading editor
    • DiavoloBoss009 wrote:
      That's a lot of damage

      Good one. ;)

        Loading editor
    • Cheeseskates wrote:

      DetectiveAquamarine wrote: ["Comments" thread] Pictogram voting comment Comment Sorry, but these quote towers are honestly a bit frustrating, you guys are discussing, but the quote towers are a bit out of hand.

      Please try not to overquote.

      As the forum and comment policy states, any reply displaying over two quotes are subject to editing or deletion. As a result, many people on this thread are violating the rules. I personally think the rule should clarify that it's only these type of overquoting that is discouraged (My quotes are separated with my own comments, which look neater). That should be its own vote thread.

      o.o File that under "things I didn't realize until just now even though I'm constantly paranoid I'm violating policy and so read policy myself semi-often". (I edited my comment there yesterday to pare down the quotes but not to policy-compliance level. Guess it's time to go do that?)

      Cheeseskates wrote:

      LapisLazuliisthebest wrote: But they were memories. I was nice looking back at old comments to remember what we said. Know they're all gone.

      ["Comments thread"] The comments were memories and part of why people even became users in the first place. It was nice to look back on old comments we made in the past, as well as look at older comments made before a certain reveal. But know they are gone and that's sad.

      Citrusellaeditswikis wrote: Further, I don't get what's so special about having a catch-all area for anything vaguely related to the page/topic at hand directly underneath it on an informational/encyclopedic website, even one discussing a topic with a fandom like many Wikia wikis including this one are. *Steven voice* ...Is it me?

      I've given that a thought: make comments visible, but new comments are impossible. It satisfies the crowd that just wants to read through them for memories, but it still redirects people to the forums and Discord for future comments. That decision isn't up to me, though. You'll need to contact an admin/bureaucrat about that. In my personal opinion, I like this idea, but I don't know how to do it.

      (Emphasis mine.)

      If it's helpful, to anyone, the way this was handled when we switched off comments on Wreck-It Ralph Wiki was that I went through and added a link to the top of every talk page for articles that had comments (example). Because of the number of articles involved (and the fact I did it with my bot account and the edit summary confirms my method), I'm sure I used AWB to do it semi-automated but unfortunately don't know off the top of my head the exact stuff I put in the program to either get the list of articles with comment history or precisely how I formatted the append code for the link, but I can share that here if I recall it, if it's helpful (or even do a similar action myself, but I wouldn't do that without directly being told to and it's probably better under the purview of a bot account to not spam Recent Changes).

      A note that because this method is using Special:PrefixIndex it doesn't give context on what the content of the comment is, just a list of the titles (which includes the date (and by the slashes for subpages, whether or not it's a reply to another comment), but... that's not so helpful unless you're really good at knowing what a comment dated [x time] is about).

      I tried once upon a time to figure out if it was possible to easily transclude them like a template instead or at least find another way to link them (largely because back in the time we disabled them, those pages weren't accessible without a ?redirect=no even with comments extension off; they redirected to the main article), but I don't remember if no one figured it out or if I just didn't go through with the suggestion because the wiki was very inactive anyway. (The forum thread was on Community Central; maybe I'll edit with a link if I snoop through my contribs and find it. (EDIT: Here! Not very useful but I said I'd link it. Does discuss transclusion and also DPL but is overall a pretty bare-bones discussion. Why do I remember it being more useful? 0_o))

      ...Phew! I bet this is entirely too long, but... *clicks reply*

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    • [I'm late for the party, sorry for pinging everyone involved here]

      It's sad to see the comments go, it was a pastime of mine to read them sometimes. But overall I get the staff decision, moderate over 2000 pages (plus forums, CSS, etc) is a tiresome task.

      Besides, generally when the comments are disabled in a wiki, the whole section usually is archived in the :Talk section. Maybe Wikia/Fandom changed that and I just didn't noticed.

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    • I. NEED. THE. COMMENTS. BACK. DUDES. AND. DUDETTES. TOO.

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:
      I. NEED. THE. COMMENTS. BACK. DUDES. AND. DUDETTES. TOO.

      You can say that again.

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    • Augustborn1996 wrote:
      Memin' Universe SU wrote:
      I. NEED. THE. COMMENTS. BACK. DUDES. AND. DUDETTES. TOO.
      You can say that again.

      Okay. "that again" XD

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    • Joofrorm wrote: [I'm late for the party, sorry for pinging everyone involved here]

      It's sad to see the comments go, it was a pastime of mine to read them sometimes. But overall I get the staff decision, moderate over 2000 pages (plus forums, CSS, etc) is a tiresome task.

      Besides, generally when the comments are disabled in a wiki, the whole section usually is archived in the :Talk section. Maybe Wikia/Fandom changed that and I just didn't noticed.

      That hasn't been a thing I've noticed happening automatically in terms of an easily-accessible and readable archive since at least 2016 or 2017 (whatever year we disabled comments on the wiki I run). The pages still exist as talk subpages, yes, but any linking to those pages (i.e. via a prefixindex like I detailed earlier) or transcluding them somewhere into a readable archive or etc. probably has to be done manually (or semi-automatedly considering the number) by an interested party/relevant staff, if desired.

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    • Sharayna wrote:
      Hello everyone!

      As you may or may not have noticed, there have been a few new changes to the wikia! We're hoping to keep the wiki fresh and interesting as well as up to date with newer, more relevant content from the shows.

      The new theme is still a work in progress and is most likely subject to change over the coming month or so, so please stay tuned and offer some feedback!


      In addition to the visual update, there has been a drastic change moving forwards; comment sections have been disabled for articles. It's very unfortunate that it has come to this, but as of late a vast majority of the comments found on article pages have been mean spirited in regards to an aspect of a character's identity such as gender. We would like to make it vehemently clear that debates regarding biological sex, gender or sexuality are not appropriate for the wiki or the potential young users that use it.

      Moving forwards, if you have a question or edit that you wish to be made or considered, please contact an admin or content moderator on their message walls or on the Ask the Staff board.


      Ultimately, wiki is primarily a source of information on its dedicated topic and we urge you to either use the wiki's Discord server or the forums for discussion from now on.

      Happy new Year!

      Please put the comments back, the only thing you guys need to make is give damage for people who says inappropriate thing in the comments section, for example blocking the account or remove a habillity like editing or make comments and depending what the person said, you guys choose the punishment and the amount of time for that punishment.

      What you guys think? I would really like do this in someone who said a inappropriate and prohibited thing

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    • The problem is that they have too many things to deal with, and they can't do that

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    • Agreed

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    • As an aside (and not to sound too much like a Vulcan 🖖) this is a fascinating study in human/computer interaction and web community building. A comparatively small change is perceived very negatively by many users of a system because it psychologically feels like something being taken away!

      It's a challenge as, obviously, both sides have valid points.  On one hand, the Moderators have too many plates to keep spinning. Using forum topics is a very similar function to article comments, so what's the problem?  It's not like anyone pays for this service, it's free and the mods do their work for no reward other than a good job.  On the other hand, a Wiki is made of its users (who feel like they're being told what to do and what's good for them by the Inner Party) and its content (some of which has now been archived and put beyond reach after it was created in good faith).

      Now, I think it's already been mentioned but about the only thing I think might be worthwhile is perhaps the option to bring back article comments in some form as a read-only archive? Just so all that interaction and discussion is still accessible and not lost, but doesn't represent a moderation overhead.  That might help a little?  I appreciate it may prove a technical challenge so if there's any little help I can offer on that as a one-off I'm happy to.

      Maybe that'll help mend bridges a little?  Or not - throwing it out there 🙂

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    • Ke2083 wrote:
      As an aside (and not to sound too much like a Vulcan 🖖) this is a fascinating study in human/computer interaction and web community building. A comparatively small change is perceived very negatively by many users of a system because it psychologically feels like something being taken away!

      It's a challenge as, obviously, both sides have valid points.  On one hand, the Moderators have too many plates to keep spinning. Using forum topics is a very similar function to article comments, so what's the problem?  It's not like anyone pays for this service, it's free and the mods do their work for no reward other than a good job.  On the other hand, a Wiki is made of its users (who feel like they're being told what to do and what's good for them by the Inner Party) and its content (some of which has now been archived and put beyond reach after it was created in good faith).

      Now, I think it's already been mentioned but about the only thing I think might be worthwhile is perhaps the option to bring back article comments in some form as a read-only archive? Just so all that interaction and discussion is still accessible and not lost, but doesn't represent a moderation overhead.  That might help a little?  I appreciate it may prove a technical challenge so if there's any little help I can offer on that as a one-off I'm happy to.

      Maybe that'll help mend bridges a little?  Or not - throwing it out there 🙂

      For me the change just feels like censorship.  This didn't become an issue until the introduction of Shep provoking conversations about non-binary sexuality that the moderators deemed inappropriate for the wiki.  Considering that Steven Universe has been delving into non-binary sexuality and LGBTQ issues since its beginning this objection doesn't make a lot of sense.  The Loud House also deals with LGBTQ issues with Clyde's two fathers and Luna's budding relationship with Sam.  The Loud House wiki's comment sections are still active.  Craig of the Creek has Courtney and Tabitha, the Witches of the Creek, who are a teen aged lesbian couple.  That wiki also retains its comment sections.

      The idea that the comment sections required too much work on the part of the moderators rings hollow because comments were doing fine until Shep.  Plenty of other wikis still retain their episode comment sections.  LGBTQ issues are becoming more open in cartoon shows as they strive to be more inclusive and more representative of the world modern children are growing up in.  This is something that is largely celebrated along with the growing diversity of cartoon characters.  So long as the conversations generated by this development in children's entertainment remain within the bounds of good taste (whatever that is determined to mean) there should be no reason to shut down comments as by every indication this is becoming the new normal.

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    • I woulden't want the Comments to get shut down, I like to comment on things.

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    • This didn't become an issue until the introduction of Shep provoking conversations about non-binary sexuality that the moderators deemed inappropriate for the wiki.

      To be fair, I've had issues with comments for a very long time for reasons outside of user conduct because I find them not-easy-to-use for in-depth content improvement and consensus discussion, but I hadn't brought up that concern before on this wiki because it felt like tossing a grain of sand into an ocean of people who probably wouldn't have cared. I only voiced that opinion after I saw everyone was yelling after they were turned off about how there's no negatives to keeping them and no positives to turning them off, when I think this is an opportunity, not a tragedy the way some people are painting it.

      I realize you might have meant "this didn't become an issue" in user conduct sense, but I think it might have been an issue some people had in other senses even before (but like me maybe they didn't want to voice it). And maybe some of it is stuff a lot of users don't see, or see after the fact--some people called Y2K a non-issue (or a downright hoax) after it was over and done, even though a lot of work went into fixes in some spheres that kept what issues there might have been from actually coming to fruition.

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    • Citrusellaeditswikis wrote:

      This didn't become an issue until the introduction of Shep provoking conversations about non-binary sexuality that the moderators deemed inappropriate for the wiki.

      To be fair, I've had issues with comments for a very long time for reasons outside of user conduct because I find them not-easy-to-use for in-depth content improvement and consensus discussion, but I hadn't brought up that concern before on this wiki because it felt like tossing a grain of sand into an ocean of people who probably wouldn't have cared. I only voiced that opinion after I saw everyone was yelling after they were turned off about how there's no negatives to keeping them and no positives to turning them off, when I think this is an opportunity, not a tragedy the way some people are painting it.

      I realize you might have meant "this didn't become an issue" in user conduct sense, but I think it might have been an issue some people had in other senses even before (but like me maybe they didn't want to voice it). And maybe some of it is stuff a lot of users don't see, or see after the fact--some people called Y2K a non-issue (or a downright hoax) after it was over and done, even though a lot of work went into fixes in some spheres that kept what issues there might have been from actually coming to fruition.

      Public fora have always been a minefield on the internet.  So most sites have moderators and some form of complaint resolution system.  The anonymous nature of the internet is going to breed jerks, trolls, flame wars and everything else that makes you want to toss your computer out the nearest window.  But then so did the telephone.  Today's smartphones have given the world a whole new set of annoyances.  But we put up with them because telephones, smartphones and internet fora deliver enough value to make putting up with the annoyances worth it.

      That's why I feel this was an overreaction.  There are thousands of wikis online, most of which have active comment sections.  So long as they are pruned and weeded on a regular basis they are a useful feature.

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    • Public fora have always been a minefield on the internet.  So most sites have moderators and some form of complaint resolution system.  The anonymous nature of the internet is going to breed jerks, trolls, flame wars and everything else that makes you want to toss your computer out the nearest window.  But then so did the telephone.  Today's smartphones have given the world a whole new set of annoyances.  But we put up with them because telephones, smartphones and internet fora deliver enough value to make putting up with the annoyances worth it.

      That's why I feel this was an overreaction.  There are thousands of wikis online, most of which have active comment sections.  So long as they are pruned and weeded on a regular basis they are a useful feature.

      I'd agree, certainly. Putting up "word bans" could be helpful, too.

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    • There's already a blacklist that would theoretically work in comments since they're in a standard Mediawiki namespace. The conduct sphere of the issue seems like it's too nuanced for an edit filter. Dependent on number of wiki staff who can be trusted with sysop tools and the time they have among the other parts of their day, it makes complete sense that it's possible to not have the moderation resources to deal with repetitive conduct issues in a timely manner.

      I still argue that comments are not useful for a wiki's actual purpose, in most in-depth editing spheres (especially since when turned on they hide access to features I think are more useful) but I suppose after so many different pooh-pooh reactions I'm not changing any minds... Sigh.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote: For me the change just feels like censorship.  This didn't become an issue until the introduction of Shep provoking conversations about non-binary sexuality that the moderators deemed inappropriate for the wiki.  Considering that Steven Universe has been delving into non-binary sexuality and LGBTQ issues since its beginning this objection doesn't make a lot of sense.  The Loud House also deals with LGBTQ issues with Clyde's two fathers and Luna's budding relationship with Sam.  The Loud House wiki's comment sections are still active.  Craig of the Creek has Courtney and Tabitha, the Witches of the Creek, who are a teen aged lesbian couple.  That wiki also retains its comment sections.

      The idea that the comment sections required too much work on the part of the moderators rings hollow because comments were doing fine until Shep.  Plenty of other wikis still retain their episode comment sections.  LGBTQ issues are becoming more open in cartoon shows as they strive to be more inclusive and more representative of the world modern children are growing up in.  This is something that is largely celebrated along with the growing diversity of cartoon characters.  So long as the conversations generated by this development in children's entertainment remain within the bounds of good taste (whatever that is determined to mean) there should be no reason to shut down comments as by every indication this is becoming the new normal.

      1. It's good that some wikis choose to keep the article comment sections, but that doesn't mean exactly that their choice is right or wrong. The media, users, moderation team, and other variables are different, and it's been talked about the true benefit of article comments over other options that exist. The conclusion has been stated in previous responses, but overall, there isn't a straight right or wrong in keeping article comments or not, and it will just depend on the wiki. As for the "censorship", that's already been addressed in this thread, but I'll repeat again. The comments appeared fine because truly bad ones had to keep being deleted, which is unnoticable to users who aren't watching Special:RecentChanges (the moderation's main way of watching the site). Considering the other issues with comments and its mediocrity compared to similar options like Forum and Discord, relocating comments to better places was the conclusion so nothing is compromised except psychological reactance for a short while.

      2. This issue has already been addressed (does that actually matter, though?). Let me repeat one more time before I never respond to them again. You can still talk about LGBT issues in cartoons without article comments. You can talk about them in the Forums or Discord, so long as people are comfortable with the discussion and it follows the rules (which is the "good taste"). The only element that changed with disabling article comments is that the location of discussion has changed, not what can be discussed. If there are issues with using Forums or Discord, do get in touch.

      Another note that Ke2083, Citrus, Lapislazuliisthebest, and myself have made: I am putting some effort into suggesting that comments come back in a "read-only" state. You won't comment on "article comments" and are still directed to Forum and Discord, but the comments will still be readable for the images and "memories". I will see how that goes.

      P.S. I'll be taking a break for a few days to fix my sleep schedule, since it has negatively affected me (waking up during the day feels like I have the flu), so I won't be here during this time. Thanks for understanding.

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    • no cussing.

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    • OwOmasterlunarae wrote:
      no cussing.

      Djswag4 made another account again...

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    • InazumAzure wrote:
      OwOmasterlunarae wrote:
      no cussing.
      Djswag4 made another account again...




















      he's blocked

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    • Good bye article comments I hope that you little buddies are in better place

      R.I.P. Article Comments

      The day this wiki as created–1/1/2020

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    • Fun fact: That dating is a little erroneous!

      If the earliest dates in the logs are anything to go off (there's nothing that's happened to Wikia's implementation Mediawiki since then that would give me the idea they're not), then the wiki was created October 20, 2012.

      Article comments don't have an enable date in the log, so we can probably assume they were enabled at/via the wiki creation process, but according to the features log they were disabled February 14, 2013, a mere four months after the wiki's creation and before the show even aired, and they stayed disabled (with the exception of a brief two minutes on October 17, 2013) until February 5, 2014, almost a year later.

      From there they were enabled until almost the end of the UTC day (18:58 UTC, to be exact) January 1, 2020, you're right, but their enablement span being since the wiki was created is a bit erroneous.

      It's more like 2012-10-20 to 2013-02-14 and then (ignoring the 2013-10-17 two minute span) 2014-02-05 to 2020-01-01.

      (Side note: Were this many people up in arms the literally *counts log entries by hand* 14 times chat was disabled? Or is Discord viewed as an adequate alternative so the response would have been meh? (Asking in genuine curiosity because I don't follow enough general discussion areas of the wiki to know.))

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    • @Citrusellaeditswikis I think there's been a ton of confusion around this. It's a simple fact that most web users don't read, they glance. They saw 'comments are disabled' and immediately read into that what they imagined.  Since then it's just kinda grown legs and now has a life of its own.

      Basicaly it's now a winning combination of some legitimate criticism and also Loss Aversion (people hate losing something they already have), Furtive Fallacy (it's a mistake by the mods that they won't admit!), Proof by Assertion (just get more mods!), Fallacy of the Single Cause (it's all Shep's Page that caused this!) and Nirvana Fallacy (no comments is imperfect therefore we should have them back).

      There's a lot of misinformation going on.  It doesn't help that answering all the questions, criticisms and fallacies necessitates Wall Of Text answers that (again) most users simply won't read.  Realistically the only way this might (very BIG might) have been averted is a 'consultation' where the problems were simply and succinctly articulated, and the community was encouraged to see (for itself) that forum topics is an acceptable solution to a lower surface-area of content needing moderation.  But as I can't provide a time machine to go with that assertion, it is an unhelpful one 🤷‍♀️

      Besides which, there are some people who either are, or are indistinguishable from, children involved.  That will always make reasonable discourse about policy tend towards a more parental attitude, which I completely understand.

      Self-righteous burble concludes 🥳

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    • I got pestered again...

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    • nice

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    • Ke2083 wrote: Besides which, there are some people who either are, or are indistinguishable from, children involved.  That will always make reasonable discourse about policy tend towards a more parental attitude, which I completely understand.

      This is something I think I need to remember more, hmm... Like, we're all supposed to be over 13 here and sometimes that gets me thinking we could all be talking like mature people... but then I remember that even just the way I edited Wikipedia at 13 is different than I do now (though being a Wikipedian instead of a Wikian meant I had to grasp professional, mature behavior much faster, because half of the discussion tones people take here would get eaten alive (but civilly! o.o) over there).

      Even though I used to be a freshly-minted 13-year-old on the internet, even though my job involves working with high schoolers... sometimes I forget what it's like to be one and successfully discourse with one.

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    • Spinel died on the cross for our Pink Diamonds and this is what we do with her sacrifice?

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    • Yes. We lessen the load on the moderation, which is limited in both number as well as, likely, time per individual because people have lives outside the wiki, by honing the breadth of discussion locations to a more specific space, and we make it easier to access locations that are easier to use for discussing improvements to articles, because interface links to those locations were previously hidden.

      Sounds like a really good thing to do, to me.

      (I might sound a tad bitter, if only because I keep expecting someone to make a substanceful argument for comments but keep hearing the same doom-and-gloom lines instead. :( )

      Side note curiosity question it might be as good to ask here as anywhere (though I might ask it again somewhere more dedicated, if it doesn't get seen/replied to here): This thread (among others) displays a "this thread is closed" padlock... but it's still perfectly capable of receiving replies. Is the lock added with an extension that has some bum settings or is something else up?

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    • the comments were memories. you forget, then look. BOOM! your comment has a reply! it's a nice suprise, that is lessened a bit now. WE NEED MORE UNEXPECTED STUFF HERE!

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    • But that forgetting is exactly one of the reasons they are very hard to use for building consensus and improving articles (which is why anyone's here, even if they only used comments--no articles, no comments).

      Comments cut off interface access to the Talk namespace, which can be watched like an article and is more useful in regards to article improvement. There were a few times when the comments were on where the hurdle to discussing/sharing a fix for content in-depth in a way it would be heard and dealt with was just high enough that I decided since it wasn't an emergency it was better worth my time to leave an issue in an article for months until I could just apply the fix myself.

      If the wiki isn't improving content whenever possible, it will stagnate (or be inaccessible to some people, or have issues become more glaring instead of being hammered out and kept that way). In my experience, that drives people off which means less visitors which means less comments which means less "unexpected surprises".

      (Though, given my history on wikis, unexpected surprises for me tend to be vandals in my watchlist or the recent changes log, which is far from "nice"... but I understand that's very connected to the context in which I approach the wiki and my history with other wikis.)

      Maybe I should back off from this thread. I'm starting to feel TOO bitter... o.o ._.

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    • Black coffee bitter or lemon head candy bitter?

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    • Licking a Nintendo Switch cartridge even though you know it tastes bitter bitter.

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    • If you'd have said a GameBoy cartrdige then i'd have bowed down and praised you

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    • Travjt
      Travjt removed this reply because:
      Someone remove this part it has nuttin to do with the thread
      19:39, January 29, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • UUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh............not to sound to rude and all, but what does licking a Nintendow Switch have to do with bitter?????

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    • game cartrdiges are BAD tasting.

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