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    • Yeah pinks horrible

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    • Pretty much.Lmao i like how there is isnt even a argument. The girl needs to be canceled.

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    • This is what happens when you compress an unimaginable power on to a tiny body with fragile mental state.

      I'm pretty sure White, Yellow and Blue can also scream and crack walls, or destroy something with a great magnitude but have enough restraint to not do that.

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    • Wdym?  Context?????

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    • Zebrawings wrote:
      Wdym?  Context?????

      Pink is Black Banshee, remember?

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    • Zebrawings wrote:
      Wdym?  Context?????

      Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Did you not watch SU Future yet?

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    • oop- also ill never forgive her for what she did to pink Pearl/Spinel. Mainly pink, though. Because it left lasting damage- Unlike Spinel who can simply move on and live a  happy life w/the rest of the diamonds, Pink pearl has to live with that little reminder for the rest of her life. Its horrific.

      I also kinda dislike the fact that people are attacking Spinel for Choosing to move on w/the diamonds because they remind her of pink.

      You can still choose to love/forgive someone, even after they did something horrible to you, most likely thats how Spinel 'Forgave' pink.

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    • Pink, to put it roughly, is a teenager with the power of a God. She gets bored easily. She's childish. She's cranky. She throws a tantrum that left a huge mental scar to her subject / attendant. How she changed basically almost 180º after being Rose is beyond me.

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    • Exactly- But it still doesnt Justify the abuse Pink Pearl had to Experience.

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    • Not only that, but faking her shattering would’ve traumatised hundreds of her own gems. If she even bothered to invite gems of her court to balls, you think she would care a little bit about the outcome.

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote:
      Not only that, but faking her shattering would’ve traumatised hundreds of her own gems. If she even bothered to invite gems of her court to balls, you think she would care a little bit about the outcome.

      Hundreds of gems were probably killed as well for failing to protect her, which- if is the case- the consequences for her actions are wwwaaaaaaay bigger of a magnitude then we originally thought.

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    • Zebrawings wrote:
      oop-

      also ill never forgive her for what she did to pink Pearl/Spinel. Mainly pink, though. Because it left lasting damage- Unlike Spinel who can simply move on and live a  happy life w/the rest of the diamonds, Pink pearl has to live with that little reminder for the rest of her life. Its horrific.

      I also kinda dislike the fact that people are attacking Spinel for Choosing to move on w/the diamonds because they remind her of pink.

      You can still choose to love/forgive someone, even after they did something horrible to you, most likely thats how Spinel 'Forgave' pink.

      And Pearl didn't believe Volleyball (Pink Pearl) when Volleyball told her Pink was the one who did that to her because Pearl was manipulated by Pink Diamond. Even if she were to rejuvenate she could still get her memories back along with the scar. It's absolutely hideous. And don't forget Pink's rebellion is the reason the Cluster and her prototypes exist in the first place! I mean, just look at how Garnet reacted to seeing her shattered friends like that. It's pretty obvious she'll never forget it.

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    • Ramensushi56 wrote:
      Zebrawings wrote:
      oop-

      also ill never forgive her for what she did to pink Pearl/Spinel. Mainly pink, though. Because it left lasting damage- Unlike Spinel who can simply move on and live a  happy life w/the rest of the diamonds, Pink pearl has to live with that little reminder for the rest of her life. Its horrific.

      I also kinda dislike the fact that people are attacking Spinel for Choosing to move on w/the diamonds because they remind her of pink.

      You can still choose to love/forgive someone, even after they did something horrible to you, most likely thats how Spinel 'Forgave' pink.

      And Pearl didn't believe Volleyball (Pink Pearl) when Volleyball told her Pink was the one who did that to her because Pearl was manipulated by Pink Diamond. Even if she were to rejuvenate she could still get her memories back along with the scar. It's absolutely hideous. And don't forget Pink's rebellion is the reason the Cluster and her prototypes exist in the first place! I mean, just look at how Garnet reacted to seeing her shattered friends like that. It's pretty obvious she'll never forget it.

      As a csa survivor who the police didint believe and still lives with their abuser- not being believed is awful. Just- loads- and loads- of awful.

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    • I don't like or dislike her but I'm glad she exists. And giving birth to an innocent cute boy who has pacifist powers who turned into an angsty teenage boy with a power that can cause doomsday.

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    • InazumAzure wrote:
      I don't like or dislike her but I'm glad she exists. And giving birth to an innocent cute boy who has pacifist powers who turned into an angsty teenage boy with a power that can cause doomsday.

      And then promptly dumped all her crap unto her son and let him emotionally and socially suffer.

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    • Zebrawings wrote:
      InazumAzure wrote:
      I don't like or dislike her but I'm glad she exists. And giving birth to an innocent cute boy who has pacifist powers who turned into an angsty teenage boy with a power that can cause doomsday.
      And then promptly dumped all her crap unto her son and let him emotionally and socially suffer.

      Exactly. The fact that Steven had to pay for what she did makes her even worse. I always felt so bad for Steven. Oh and Jasper.

      Jasper would've done anything for her even if it meant shattering other Gems. The only reason she came to Earth was to avenge Pink Diamond. Now just imagine how she probably reacted when learning the truth. On the outside it seems like she doesn't care but on the inside she likely feels used for the sadistic pleasure of the Diamond she was trying to avenge. It's so sick.

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    • I honestly have mixed feelings about Pink but I don't hate her i used to but not anymore and Why do people forgive Pink but not the Diamonds when there actions were FAR WORSE than Pink's plus she was abused not that i'm defending Pink nor am I hating on her

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    • Yafava kuec123 wrote:
      I honestly have mixed feelings about Pink but I don't hate her i used to but not anymore and Why do people forgive Pink but not the Diamonds when there actions were FAR WORSE than Pink's plus she was abused not that i'm defending Pink nor am I hating on her

      Cause she caused the crap that made them do the stuff they did in the FIRST PLACE!

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    • Zebrawings wrote:

      I also kinda dislike the fact that people are attacking Spinel for Choosing to move on w/the diamonds because they remind her of pink.

      I think there is genuine concern for Spinel and the Diamonds.  She's entering the same relationship with them that she had with Pink.  The Diamonds have no interest in Spinel herself but only in her connection to Pink.  They're using Spinel as a substitute.  Spinel needs someone who will appreciate her as her own gem.  Otherwise she's at risk of being abandoned again when the diamonds eventually outgrow her putting her back to square one.  Despite all she went through in the movie Spinel still doesn't have a genuine friend.  She's still someone else's toy.

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    • Zebrawings wrote:
      Pretty much.Lmao i like how there is isnt even a argument. The girl needs to be canceled.

      It's still an argument.  There are fans out there who still see Pink as their precious cinnamon bun and vehemently deny she ever did anything wrong.  When cornered those fans will make every excuse imaginable for her behavior.  There's another thread in this forum where that behavior is on full display.

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    • Zebrawings wrote:
      InazumAzure wrote:
      I don't like or dislike her but I'm glad she exists. And giving birth to an innocent cute boy who has pacifist powers who turned into an angsty teenage boy with a power that can cause doomsday.
      And then promptly dumped all her crap unto her son and let him emotionally and socially suffer.

      I resent that

      I know YOU don't see the good in Pink, but I do.

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    • Negaboss2000 wrote:
      Zebrawings wrote:
      InazumAzure wrote:
      I don't like or dislike her but I'm glad she exists. And giving birth to an innocent cute boy who has pacifist powers who turned into an angsty teenage boy with a power that can cause doomsday.
      And then promptly dumped all her crap unto her son and let him emotionally and socially suffer.
      I resent that

      I know YOU don't see the good in Pink, but I do.

      Your a abuse apologist if you try to even come up with anything remotely good about her.

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    • Zebrawings wrote:
      Negaboss2000 wrote:
      Zebrawings wrote:
      InazumAzure wrote:
      I don't like or dislike her but I'm glad she exists. And giving birth to an innocent cute boy who has pacifist powers who turned into an angsty teenage boy with a power that can cause doomsday.
      And then promptly dumped all her crap unto her son and let him emotionally and socially suffer.
      I resent that

      I know YOU don't see the good in Pink, but I do.

      Your a abuse apologist if you try to even come up with anything remotely good about her.

      I'm just saying that I don't see Pink the way you guys do...that's all

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Zebrawings wrote:

      I also kinda dislike the fact that people are attacking Spinel for Choosing to move on w/the diamonds because they remind her of pink.

      I think there is genuine concern for Spinel and the Diamonds.  She's entering the same relationship with them that she had with Pink.  The Diamonds have no interest in Spinel herself but only in her connection to Pink.  They're using Spinel as a substitute.  Spinel needs someone who will appreciate her as her own gem.  Otherwise she's at risk of being abandoned again when the diamonds eventually outgrow her putting her back to square one.  Despite all she went through in the movie Spinel still doesn't have a genuine friend.  She's still someone else's toy.

      If Desert Glass (sorry, I'm gonna bring Desert Glass up a lot because we can't forget about her) were freed, I'd imagine her as being a friend who appreciates Spinel for who she is. The Diamonds are using Spinel as a substitute when what Spinel actually needs is a friend who'll never abandon her, someone who sees her as her own Gem.

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    • TBH I only liked Pink having "destructive powers" instead just "pacifying powers" other than that I don't really care about her actually. I just want to see the destructive power to grow and through it more capable offensive capabilities for the boy to wield.

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    • Is this just about Pink Diamond? What about the others, who force-fused shards to make the Cluster and her prototypes?

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    • Ramensushi56 wrote:
      Is this just about Pink Diamond? What about the others, who force-fused shards to make the Cluster and her prototypes?

      nope, they arent out of the woods either. They couldve- i dunno reacted better to pinks dissapeerance-

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    • I still really feel bad for Jasper. She probably thinks her Diamond used her for a war that shouldn't have taken place in the first place.

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    • Thats exactly what she did

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    • Zebrawings wrote:
      Yafava kuec123 wrote:
      I honestly have mixed feelings about Pink but I don't hate her i used to but not anymore and Why do people forgive Pink but not the Diamonds when there actions were FAR WORSE than Pink's plus she was abused not that i'm defending Pink nor am I hating on her
      Cause she caused the crap that made them do the stuff they did in the FIRST PLACE!

      I know but keep in mind that the Diamonds raised her into thinking others were beneith her and corruption i'll admit was all 4 diamonds fault Pink for starting the war and the Diamonds for doing it in the first place and sure corruption wasn't the intened effect but the Diamonds intened on KILLING EVERY GEM ON EARTH including gems that were fighting in the war for them and even now they aren't remorsful for there actions (though honeslty i still think Pink abandoning Spinel and leaving her problems on Steven was a prick-move) but either way and like I said the diamonds actions were worse than PInk's sure she started a war got thosands killed and screwed others over sure but the diamonds have literally killed millions of planets, species and including there own kind and like I said even now they show ZERO REMORSE for it and sure they were mourning Pink but just because they were mourning Pink doesn't justify there actions



      In conclusion the Diamonds are equally bad and Pink isn't a villian but nor is she a hero

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    • Sharayna wrote:
      Thats exactly what she did

      What do you mean? Is it about Jasper being used by her Diamond?

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    • I don't think this way about Pink tbh...

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    • Ramensushi56 wrote:

      Sharayna wrote:
      Thats exactly what she did

      What do you mean? Is it about Jasper being used by her Diamond?

      Aren’t all gems being used by their Diamonds, in a way?

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    • Negaboss2000 wrote:
      I don't think this way about Pink tbh...

      That changes nothing about what we know about her.

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    • You can't blame the diamonds actions on Pink. They decided to do all that not Pink. The other three diamonds are a heck of a lot worse then Pink is. It's not Pink's fault that the gems got currupted it's White's Blue's and Yellow's. No one made the diamonds attack they decided to for revenge. You can't pink Yellow's Blue's and White's actions on Pink. White Blue and Yellow are monsters while Pink I wouldn't really call a monster. TBH Pink had every right to cut ties with Spinel but how she went around it was bad. Spinel was toxic and Pink was in the right to leave that relationship but the way that Pink did it was horrible.

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    • QiralynCasette wrote:
      You can't blame the diamonds actions on Pink. They decided to do all that not Pink. The other three diamonds are a heck of a lot worse then Pink is. It's not Pink's fault that the gems got currupted it's White's Blue's and Yellow's. No one made the diamonds attack they decided to for revenge. You can't pink Yellow's Blue's and White's actions on Pink. White Blue and Yellow are monsters while Pink I wouldn't really call a monster. TBH Pink had every right to cut ties with Spinel but how she went around it was bad. Spinel was toxic and Pink was in the right to leave that relationship but the way that Pink did it was horrible.

      What the Diamonds did on Earth was very much Pink's fault.  It was Pink who started the war and then faked her own shattering which caused the Diamonds to launch the corruption attack in the first place.  Millions of gems were killed along with a fair number of humans.  Those gems that weren't killed were corrupted.  And let's not forget the Cluster.  A vengeance weapon created by the Diamonds out of torture and death for the sole purpose of destroying the Earth and exterminating Humanity.  Pink's bad decisions triggered every trauma the Crystal Gems suffered and would continue to haunt them for thousands of years.

      How exactly was Spinel toxic?  She was created specifically to be Pink's best friend.  Her job was to keep Pink entertained and happy and she did just that.  And Spinel enjoyed doing it.  Spinel didn't do anything wrong.  When Pink got her colony Spinel became inconvenient.  Pink had outgrown her.  Instead of doing the decent thing and returning her to Homeworld, explaining the situation and letting Spinel find a new life with a new companion she abandoned Spinel on a rock in the middle of space under the pretense of a game so she'd stay there.  She treated Spinel like an old toy she didn't want to play with anymore.  Spinel had every right to be furious at someone who betrayed her so horribly.

      Pink Diamond was cruel and abusive.  Spinel and Pink Pearl confirm that.  There are no excuses for Pink Diamond.  Stop trying to squeeze her into leather pants.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      QiralynCasette wrote:
      You can't blame the diamonds actions on Pink. They decided to do all that not Pink. The other three diamonds are a heck of a lot worse then Pink is. It's not Pink's fault that the gems got currupted it's White's Blue's and Yellow's. No one made the diamonds attack they decided to for revenge. You can't pink Yellow's Blue's and White's actions on Pink. White Blue and Yellow are monsters while Pink I wouldn't really call a monster. TBH Pink had every right to cut ties with Spinel but how she went around it was bad. Spinel was toxic and Pink was in the right to leave that relationship but the way that Pink did it was horrible.
      What the Diamonds did on Earth was very much Pink's fault.  It was Pink who started the war and then faked her own shattering which caused the Diamonds to launch the corruption attack in the first place.  Millions of gems were killed along with a fair number of humans.  Those gems that weren't killed were corrupted.  And let's not forget the Cluster.  A vengeance weapon created by the Diamonds out of torture and death for the sole purpose of destroying the Earth and exterminating Humanity.  Pink's bad decisions triggered every trauma the Crystal Gems suffered and would continue to haunt them for thousands of years.

      How exactly was Spinel toxic?  She was created specifically to be Pink's best friend.  Her job was to keep Pink entertained and happy and she did just that.  And Spinel enjoyed doing it.  Spinel didn't do anything wrong.  When Pink got her colony Spinel became inconvenient.  Pink had outgrown her.  Instead of doing the decent thing and returning her to Homeworld, explaining the situation and letting Spinel find a new life with a new companion she abandoned Spinel on a rock in the middle of space under the pretense of a game so she'd stay there.  She treated Spinel like an old toy she didn't want to play with anymore.  Spinel had every right to be furious at someone who betrayed her so horribly.

      Pink Diamond was cruel and abusive.  Spinel and Pink Pearl confirm that.  There are no excuses for Pink Diamond.  Stop trying to squeeze her into leather pants.

      I 100% agree. I'll bet poor Jasper felt so used, like she was made for something caused solely by someone's selfishness alone. And Steven had to deal with everything she did. It's absolutely horrible. Also, she claimed Blue and Yellow didn't care about her. Excuse me?! Blue and Yellow spent thousands of years grieving her death! 😡 And poor Spinel. Abandoned cruelly just like that. She wasn't toxic; she was only doing her job. Last but certainly not least, Pink Pearl is stuck with that scar forever and ever into eternity and it'll just continue to get worse over time. 😭

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    • Literally all the gems on Homeworld were used by their Diamonds. Can we start feeling sad for the courts?

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote:
      Literally all the gems on Homeworld were used by their Diamonds. Can we start feeling sad for the courts?

      Agreed

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    • You can't pin the diamonds actions on pink! That's like if someone wronged me and I took it out on their family it would be my actions and I would be the one to blame. Also Spinel was confirmed by rebecca herself to be toxic ans lets not forget the time where she was rejuvenated and when it looked like steven was going to leavs her she all of a sudden got angry. Blaming the diamonds actions on pink is stupid and if we go that way then the initial blame goes to the diamonds anyway for abusing pink to begin with and not listening to her. 

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    • Also Pink wasn't cruel if she was she would be doing all the stuff for her own amusement but she wasn't she was trying  to spare the earth cause she knew life was precious and she tried to free the gems. Stop treating Pink worse than she is. Stop acting like the other diamonds are better than her because they are a lot worse. Pink did some messed up things but she also did a lot of good things. If pink never took action, earth would have been destroyed and gems would still be slaves to the other diamonds not living for themselves. 

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    • QiralynCasette wrote:
      Also Pink wasn't cruel if she was she would be doing all the stuff for her own amusement but she wasn't she was trying  to spare the earth cause she knew life was precious and she tried to free the gems. Stop treating Pink worse than she is. Stop acting like the other diamonds are better than her because they are a lot worse. Pink did some messed up things but she also did a lot of good things. If pink never took action, earth would have been destroyed and gems would still be slaves to the other diamonds not living for themselves. 

      I agree and the Pink hate now is getting annoying and pointless (though Inused to hate Pink but I obviously don't anymore) and your right the Diamonds were far worse than Pink and even now there no better 

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    • QiralynCasette wrote:
      You can't pin the diamonds actions on pink! That's like if someone wronged me and I took it out on their family it would be my actions and I would be the one to blame. Also Spinel was confirmed by rebecca herself to be toxic ans lets not forget the time where she was rejuvenated and when it looked like steven was going to leavs her she all of a sudden got angry. Blaming the diamonds actions on pink is stupid and if we go that way then the initial blame goes to the diamonds anyway for abusing pink to begin with and not listening to her. 

      Please show proof of Rebecca Surgar saying that about Spinel. She did say Pink can be cruel, so please do not forget that. I do find Spinel to be 'toxic' to her own degree, but note this is because of Pink's selfish actions. As for blaming Pink for the other Diamonds' actions, I do admit that's a little silly. She was responsible for the war though. She could've told the truth be decided to run away. However, the corruption isn't her fault really.

      And yes, she was cruel at times. This has been confirmed by the creators. Spinel is a good example. Pink had a tendency to use others and act immature. Even as Rose, she was bad at understand others. Pink Pearl (and yes I do believe was an accident), is another example of her bad side. Bismuth though is a prime for me after Spinel. Trapping the gem and lying about her was a highly cruel thing to do. You cannot deny that. 

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    • I agree and the Pink hate now is getting annoying and pointless (though Inused to hate Pink but I obviously don't anymore) and your right the Diamonds were far worse than Pink and even now there no better 

      Others could say the same about how her fans see her so perfectly. Honestly, others have the right to express there like or dislike for a character. Even if some people seem immature or over the top, they should express themselves, though it's better to do so in a mature way. 

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    • Shimmysan wrote:
      QiralynCasette wrote:
      You can't pin the diamonds actions on pink! That's like if someone wronged me and I took it out on their family it would be my actions and I would be the one to blame. Also Spinel was confirmed by rebecca herself to be toxic ans lets not forget the time where she was rejuvenated and when it looked like steven was going to leavs her she all of a sudden got angry. Blaming the diamonds actions on pink is stupid and if we go that way then the initial blame goes to the diamonds anyway for abusing pink to begin with and not listening to her. 
      Please show proof of Rebecca Surgar saying that about Spinel. She did say Pink can be cruel, so please do not forget that. I do find Spinel to be 'toxic' to her own degree, but note this is because of Pink's selfish actions. As for blaming Pink for the other Diamonds' actions, I do admit that's a little silly. She was responsible for the war though. She could've told the truth be decided to run away. However, the corruption isn't her fault really.

      And yes, she was cruel at times. This has been confirmed by the creators. Spinel is a good example. Pink had a tendency to use others and act immature. Even as Rose, she was bad at understand others. Pink Pearl (and yes I do believe was an accident), is another example of her bad side. Bismuth though is a prime for me after Spinel. Trapping the gem and lying about her was a highly cruel thing to do. You cannot deny that. 

      Yeah the war was her fault as she played a active part of it and I guess I have a different point of view of what cruel is. 

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    • Shimmysan wrote:

      And yes, she was cruel at times. This has been confirmed by the creators. Spinel is a good example. Pink had a tendency to use others and act immature. Even as Rose, she was bad at understand others. Pink Pearl (and yes I do believe was an accident), is another example of her bad side. Bismuth though is a prime for me after Spinel. Trapping the gem and lying about her was a highly cruel thing to do. You cannot deny that. 

      Pink Pearl wasn't an accident.  Her cowering response to Steven's outburst was the clinical response of someone who's been repeatedly abused.

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    • Shimmysan wrote:

      Others could say the same about how her fans see her so perfectly. Honestly, others have the right to express there like or dislike for a character. Even if some people seem immature or over the top, they should express themselves, though it's better to do so in a mature way. 

      TV Tropes calls this trope "Draco in Leather Pants".  If a fan finds a villain to be attractive their headcanon will cleanse them of any wrongdoing or at least do its best to diminish or excuse it.  It comes from Draco Malfoy from the Harry Potter franchise who was a right bastard and deliberately written to be so.  You wouldn't know that, however, from a lot of the fanfics written about him.

      Oddly enough there seem to be plenty of fans of attractive villains who have no problem accepting the horrors the object of their fandom has been responsible for.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Shimmysan wrote:

      And yes, she was cruel at times. This has been confirmed by the creators. Spinel is a good example. Pink had a tendency to use others and act immature. Even as Rose, she was bad at understand others. Pink Pearl (and yes I do believe was an accident), is another example of her bad side. Bismuth though is a prime for me after Spinel. Trapping the gem and lying about her was a highly cruel thing to do. You cannot deny that. 

      Pink Pearl wasn't an accident.  Her cowering response to Steven's outburst was the clinical response of someone who's been repeatedly abused.

      That's not entirely true. Yes, her reaction could mean repeated abuse, but it could also be that the single event traumiatized her badly. When Steven had his outburst it could've reminded her of the time Pink had broken her. This scene can go either way, but does not mean Pink continually abused her. A person can be messed up by something that just happened once, like being trapped in a well or in an enclosed space for a long time can cause someone to be claustrophobic. 

      Given how the show portrays Pink, it's likely she took her anger out on Pink Pearl once. This is still a form of abuse, but I don't think she did it repeatedly. Pink did care for both her Pearls (in her own weird way), and she did change. Rosa is proof of that. However, her actions can be brutal and I don't know if I can say she's a full good guy. Things changed for me after seeing what she did to Bismuth, and espcially Spinel and Pink Pearl. Her treatment of Pearl also isn't the best. I will say she does have a degree of growth, but we can't see much of it due to Steven being the focus. I wish the creators would change forcus sometimes or maybe make a mini series for characters. Pink Diamond would benefit from this. Sadly, most of what we have is speculation since it's always in Steven's POV. Still, you may be right about her having repeatingly abused Pink Pearl, but evidence shows that likely is not true. 

      As for the trope you mentioned, I do 100 percent agree with you. I've even read some fan fiction about that, so it's interesting to see it as a trope with Harry Potter. I see that easilly happening with Pink. At the same time, one can't deny the Diamonds too a degree. Now Pink is spoiled, but also they didn't treat her with much respect and looked down on her and even locked her away. The thing with the other Diamonds though is we get a glimpses of character development for them or at least their reactions to things and that's why some may find Pink the most evil Diamond. Pink does not get much development as she is dead. in terms of what I think of her, i'm a mixed bag at this point. 

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    • Shimmysan wrote:

      That's not entirely true. Yes, her reaction could mean repeated abuse, but it could also be that the single event traumiatized her badly. When Steven had his outburst it could've reminded her of the time Pink had broken her. This scene can go either way, but does not mean Pink continually abused her. A person can be messed up by something that just happened once, like being trapped in a well or in an enclosed space for a long time can cause someone to be claustrophobic.

      Given how the show portrays Pink, it's likely she took her anger out on Pink Pearl once. This is still a form of abuse, but I don't think she did it repeatedly. Pink did care for both her Pearls (in her own weird way), and she did change. Rosa is proof of that. However, her actions can be brutal and I don't know if I can say she's a full good guy. Things changed for me after seeing what she did to Bismuth, and espcially Spinel and Pink Pearl. Her treatment of Pearl also isn't the best. I will say she does have a degree of growth, but we can't see much of it due to Steven being the focus. I wish the creators would change forcus sometimes or maybe make a mini series for characters. Pink Diamond would benefit from this. Sadly, most of what we have is speculation since it's always in Steven's POV. Still, you may be right about her having repeatingly abused Pink Pearl, but evidence shows that likely is not true. 

      As for the trope you mentioned, I do 100 percent agree with you. I've even read some fan fiction about that, so it's interesting to see it as a trope with Harry Potter. I see that easilly happening with Pink. At the same time, one can't deny the Diamonds too a degree. Now Pink is spoiled, but also they didn't treat her with much respect and looked down on her and even locked her away. The thing with the other Diamonds though is we get a glimpses of character development for them or at least their reactions to things and that's why some may find Pink the most evil Diamond. Pink does not get much development as she is dead. in terms of what I think of her, i'm a mixed bag at this point. 

      Are you offering this as a defense of Pink Diamond?  She only did it once!?  What difference does that make?  Pink Pearl suffered a trauma so profound it left her scarred to the point that neither Steven nor the Reef can heal her.  How does saying Pink Diamond only abused her once make that any better?  That makes it worse!  Pink Diamond generated the kind of trauma indicative of years of abuse with a single attack that left Pink Pearl still suffering from PTSD over 10 millennia later.

      And why are you dredging up the Abuse Excuse for Pink?  Do you genuinely believe that having been abused gives someone the right to abuse others?  Does that work with other crimes as well?  Does having been raped give the victim the right to rape others?  There are people on this planet who suffer horrific trauma daily.  People are raped, tortured, forced to watch loved ones killed or worse right in front of them.  Yet these people manage to find the strength to try and protect others from the pain they experienced.  Having been tramatized they find the conviction to prevent others from suffering the way they did.  Most people have enough empathy not to want the pain they've suffered perpetuated on to others.  These people learned to transcend their tragedies to become better people.  Pink Diamond succumbed to hers and left nothing but pain in her wake.

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    • I agree with Hawas. While Pink did go through some terrible things and that was bound to effect some actions she also should've taken responsibility for her own actions. At the very least, after the war, she should've explained everything to Garnet, Pearl, and Bismuth. She shouldn't have lashed out so close to her Pearl, she should've told Spinel, "Hey, I can't take you to Earth. The Diamonds would have both our gems if I did. You are free to stay in the garden or play with the Pebbles in my room."

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      I agree with Hawas. While Pink did go through some terrible things and that was bound to effect some actions she also should've taken responsibility for her own actions. At the very least, after the war, she should've explained everything to Garnet, Pearl, and Bismuth. She shouldn't have lashed out so close to her Pearl, she should've told Spinel, "Hey, I can't take you to Earth. The Diamonds would have both our gems if I did. You are free to stay in the garden or play with the Pebbles in my room."

      ^^^^

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Shimmysan wrote:

      That's not entirely true. Yes, her reaction could mean repeated abuse, but it could also be that the single event traumiatized her badly. When Steven had his outburst it could've reminded her of the time Pink had broken her. This scene can go either way, but does not mean Pink continually abused her. A person can be messed up by something that just happened once, like being trapped in a well or in an enclosed space for a long time can cause someone to be claustrophobic.

      Given how the show portrays Pink, it's likely she took her anger out on Pink Pearl once. This is still a form of abuse, but I don't think she did it repeatedly. Pink did care for both her Pearls (in her own weird way), and she did change. Rosa is proof of that. However, her actions can be brutal and I don't know if I can say she's a full good guy. Things changed for me after seeing what she did to Bismuth, and espcially Spinel and Pink Pearl. Her treatment of Pearl also isn't the best. I will say she does have a degree of growth, but we can't see much of it due to Steven being the focus. I wish the creators would change forcus sometimes or maybe make a mini series for characters. Pink Diamond would benefit from this. Sadly, most of what we have is speculation since it's always in Steven's POV. Still, you may be right about her having repeatingly abused Pink Pearl, but evidence shows that likely is not true. 

      As for the trope you mentioned, I do 100 percent agree with you. I've even read some fan fiction about that, so it's interesting to see it as a trope with Harry Potter. I see that easilly happening with Pink. At the same time, one can't deny the Diamonds too a degree. Now Pink is spoiled, but also they didn't treat her with much respect and looked down on her and even locked her away. The thing with the other Diamonds though is we get a glimpses of character development for them or at least their reactions to things and that's why some may find Pink the most evil Diamond. Pink does not get much development as she is dead. in terms of what I think of her, i'm a mixed bag at this point. 

      Are you offering this as a defense of Pink Diamond?  She only did it once!?  What difference does that make?  Pink Pearl suffered a trauma so profound it left her scarred to the point that neither Steven nor the Reef can heal her.  How does saying Pink Diamond only abused her once make that any better?  That makes it worse!  Pink Diamond generated the kind of trauma indicative of years of abuse with a single attack that left Pink Pearl still suffering from PTSD over 10 millennia later.

      And why are you dredging up the Abuse Excuse for Pink?  Do you genuinely believe that having been abused gives someone the right to abuse others?  Does that work with other crimes as well?  Does having been raped give the victim the right to rape others?  There are people on this planet who suffer horrific trauma daily.  People are raped, tortured, forced to watch loved ones killed or worse right in front of them.  Yet these people manage to find the strength to try and protect others from the pain they experienced.  Having been tramatized they find the conviction to prevent others from suffering the way they did.  Most people have enough empathy not to want the pain they've suffered perpetuated on to others.  These people learned to transcend their tragedies to become better people.  Pink Diamond succumbed to hers and left nothing but pain in her wake.

      I never said what she did was okay, even if it was only once. I was saying you can't say she abused Pink Pearl multiple time without having some proof or at an least example. I'd really like it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. I already said I'm not a fan of hers anymore after learning what she did to Bismuth and Pearl, leaving me having mixed feelings for her. I am a fan of Pink Pearl and Spinnel and I don't condone what she did to either of them. Spinel was a prime example (as we saw her story first) when he really see how cruel Pink can be. Many people (including myself) could relate to Spinel or even Pink Pearl.

      And again, stop putting words into my mouth please. I never once said that Pink getting abused gives her a reason to treat others badly. I'm just saying the Diamonds did some horrid things as well. Great examples are destroying planets, shattering gems etc. However, we get time with the Diamonds and so can easily grow to like them. Yellow is my favorite for example. All I said about Pink was she's never really had much screen time to show her reactions to things, and so one can feel detached from her or even hate her, which is understandable given what she's done. All I meant was if she was given some screen time more, we may have learned more about her as with the other diamods.

      Honestly, it's strange. You dislike Pink Diamond a lot, but you remind me greatly of some of her fans. Overreaction  to a person's opinion and even wording things that the poster didn't mean or say. First ask what i mean by what i said before jumping to a conclusion. If you've read my other posts, you'll see me not defending Pink.

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    • Steven Bomb 17 wrote:
      I agree with Hawas. While Pink did go through some terrible things and that was bound to effect some actions she also should've taken responsibility for her own actions. At the very least, after the war, she should've explained everything to Garnet, Pearl, and Bismuth. She shouldn't have lashed out so close to her Pearl, she should've told Spinel, "Hey, I can't take you to Earth. The Diamonds would have both our gems if I did. You are free to stay in the garden or play with the Pebbles in my room."

      I do 100 percent agree with you. I'm not condoning her actions and agree that she's never been the type to take responsibility. I even argued this with someone who said she could do no wrong. My problem with this user is acting like some of her fans, but the opposite. While your post is calm, they are getting upset and somehow kind of twisting my post. With you though, I agree with. I do wish more people, on both sides, would act a little more calmer with this.

      Anyway, the question comes down to if I think she is a villain. At this point, I have no idea. I'm leaning on yes. I don't really know what the show wants to fully show. We've seen her do a lot of messed up things. Heck, even if someone says the Diamonds are cruel and evil, we see they did care for her. They didn't always treat her well though and seemed to do some messed up things, but they did care for her. One of my biggest things with Pink was how she didn't even think how her death would affect the other Diamonds or even the gem race. Jasper and Blue are great examples of those who didn't take it well. For me at this point, I'm more focused on Steven and friends than Pink. Still, I guess I'd be leaning towards her slightly being a bad guy given what we've learned over the years. However, even the show creators have said that Steven Universe has no villains and Rose/Pink has done some good things. Still, I've grown to dislike her more given what she's done. 

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    • Shimmysan wrote:

      I never said what she did was okay, even if it was only once. I was saying you can't say she abused Pink Pearl multiple time without having some proof or at an least example. I'd really like it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. I already said I'm not a fan of hers anymore after learning what she did to Bismuth and Pearl, leaving me having mixed feelings for her. I am a fan of Pink Pearl and Spinnel and I don't condone what she did to either of them. Spinel was a prime example (as we saw her story first) when he really see how cruel Pink can be. Many people (including myself) could relate to Spinel or even Pink Pearl.

      And again, stop putting words into my mouth please. I never once said that Pink getting abused gives her a reason to treat others badly. I'm just saying the Diamonds did some horrid things as well. Great examples are destroying planets, shattering gems etc. However, we get time with the Diamonds and so can easily grow to like them. Yellow is my favorite for example. All I said about Pink was she's never really had much screen time to show her reactions to things, and so one can feel detached from her or even hate her, which is understandable given what she's done. All I meant was if she was given some screen time more, we may have learned more about her as with the other diamods.

      Honestly, it's strange. You dislike Pink Diamond a lot, but you remind me greatly of some of her fans. Overreaction  to a person's opinion and even wording things that the poster didn't mean or say. First ask what i mean by what i said before jumping to a conclusion. If you've read my other posts, you'll see me not defending Pink.

      I am not putting words in your mouth.  I am quoting the relevant portions of your posts for proper context.  Your defense of Pink hinges on the Fallacy of Relative Privation also known as "Not as bad as".  When Pink Diamond's crimes are cited you respond by saying the other Diamonds were worse.  You keep bringing up their abuse of Pink as if it mattered to the crimes Pink herself is responsible for.  Yes, the other Diamonds were worse and Pink was abused but that is irrelevant.  The issue is the character of Pink Diamond and her character was no better than that of the other Diamonds.  It was, indeed, demonstrably worse.  Her crimes are compounded by the fact that they were committed against people who were close to her, loved her, believed in her cause and were willing to die for her.  She betrayed every last one of them.  Pink Diamond alone made the choices she did and she alone bears the full responsibility for their consequences.

      I do not dislike Pink Diamond.  Pink Diamond isn't real.  She's a fictional character.  I'm evaluating her role in the story and in the mind of her creator.  Rebecca Sugar herself said that Rose Quartz is a really awful person (10:00).  She has certainly lived up to that description.  Yet when this is pointed out to some fans out comes the parade of justifications, lame excuses and and outright denial of her role in the story.  Pink Diamond was the villain.  Every horrible thing Steven and the Crystal Gems went through up to and including Steven Universe Future traces directly back to decisions Pink made.  I can accept that as Pink Diamond's role in the narrative.  Defending her is like defending The Joker or Professor Moriarty or Emperor Palpatine.  Pink Diamond did the job her creator wrote her to do.  She's the problem our heroes have to solve.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Shimmysan wrote:

      I never said what she did was okay, even if it was only once. I was saying you can't say she abused Pink Pearl multiple time without having some proof or at an least example. I'd really like it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. I already said I'm not a fan of hers anymore after learning what she did to Bismuth and Pearl, leaving me having mixed feelings for her. I am a fan of Pink Pearl and Spinnel and I don't condone what she did to either of them. Spinel was a prime example (as we saw her story first) when he really see how cruel Pink can be. Many people (including myself) could relate to Spinel or even Pink Pearl.

      And again, stop putting words into my mouth please. I never once said that Pink getting abused gives her a reason to treat others badly. I'm just saying the Diamonds did some horrid things as well. Great examples are destroying planets, shattering gems etc. However, we get time with the Diamonds and so can easily grow to like them. Yellow is my favorite for example. All I said about Pink was she's never really had much screen time to show her reactions to things, and so one can feel detached from her or even hate her, which is understandable given what she's done. All I meant was if she was given some screen time more, we may have learned more about her as with the other diamods.

      Honestly, it's strange. You dislike Pink Diamond a lot, but you remind me greatly of some of her fans. Overreaction  to a person's opinion and even wording things that the poster didn't mean or say. First ask what i mean by what i said before jumping to a conclusion. If you've read my other posts, you'll see me not defending Pink.

      I am not putting words in your mouth.  I am quoting the relevant portions of your posts for proper context.  Your defense of Pink hinges on the Fallacy of Relative Privation also known as "Not as bad as".  When Pink Diamond's crimes are cited you respond by saying the other Diamonds were worse.  You keep bringing up their abuse of Pink as if it mattered to the crimes Pink herself is responsible for.  Yes, the other Diamonds were worse and Pink was abused but that is irrelevant.  The issue is the character of Pink Diamond and her character was no better than that of the other Diamonds.  It was, indeed, demonstrably worse.  Her crimes are compounded by the fact that they were committed against people who were close to her, loved her, believed in her cause and were willing to die for her.  She betrayed every last one of them.  Pink Diamond alone made the choices she did and she alone bears the full responsibility for their consequences.

      I do not dislike Pink Diamond.  Pink Diamond isn't real.  She's a fictional character.  I'm evaluating her role in the story and in the mind of her creator.  Rebecca Sugar herself said that Rose Quartz is a really awful person (10:00).  She has certainly lived up to that description.  Yet when this is pointed out to some fans out comes the parade of justifications, lame excuses and and outright denial of her role in the story.  Pink Diamond was the villain.  Every horrible thing Steven and the Crystal Gems went through up to and including Steven Universe Future traces directly back to decisions Pink made.  I can accept that as Pink Diamond's role in the narrative.  Defending her is like defending The Joker or Professor Moriarty or Emperor Palpatine.  Pink Diamond did the job her creator wrote her to do.  She's the problem our heroes have to solve.

      Hey Um, don't take this the wrong way, but you're being a bit too emotional about this. Honestly, it's a tv show. People are gonna have their own views and stuff. Soe may not look deeper into the characters or story or even meaning, but getting worked up about it won't help. I'm new signing on, but I've seen the posts about Pink. Some are quite shocking. I myself don't really like her, but the reasons have been stated why. I think you need to calm down though, and just let others like what they like. As for this user, I do kind of get what they mean about her. I don't think they are condoning her actions. Honestly though, I think everyone needs to calm down. This is why Steven Universe fandoms don't have the best rep.

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    • Silvergem445 wrote:

      Hey Um, don't take this the wrong way, but you're being a bit too emotional about this. Honestly, it's a tv show. People are gonna have their own views and stuff. Soe may not look deeper into the characters or story or even meaning, but getting worked up about it won't help. I'm new signing on, but I've seen the posts about Pink. Some are quite shocking. I myself don't really like her, but the reasons have been stated why. I think you need to calm down though, and just let others like what they like. As for this user, I do kind of get what they mean about her. I don't think they are condoning her actions. Honestly though, I think everyone needs to calm down. This is why Steven Universe fandoms don't have the best rep.

      This isn't getting emotional.  This is simply evaluating the meanings and messages contained in a work of art.  This is what you do in literature classes.  People attending film school watch and dissect movies for years to earn their degrees and work in the film industry.  People do this in creative writing courses in order to understand how writing works so they can create quality work for the publishing industry.  Steven Universe may be a kids show but it's created by adults.  These adults are trained, professional storytellers.  As a result Steven Universe is a nuanced, structured and layered story reflective of the beliefs, ideologies and life experiences of the people who create it.  Part of understanding any form of art, even art intended for children, is being able to explore those layers.

      Nobody ever says, "it's just a kids show" when talking about Avatar, The Last Airbender.  It was undeniably a kids show but no one denies that it was s story with considerable depth and meaning.  Steven Universe delves into issues of abuse, acceptance, LGBTQ rights, war, genocide, atrocities, etc.  It isn't Strawberry Shortcake.  Some fans will just take it at face value and leave it at that.  Others will want to plumb those depths.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Silvergem445 wrote:

      Hey Um, don't take this the wrong way, but you're being a bit too emotional about this. Honestly, it's a tv show. People are gonna have their own views and stuff. Soe may not look deeper into the characters or story or even meaning, but getting worked up about it won't help. I'm new signing on, but I've seen the posts about Pink. Some are quite shocking. I myself don't really like her, but the reasons have been stated why. I think you need to calm down though, and just let others like what they like. As for this user, I do kind of get what they mean about her. I don't think they are condoning her actions. Honestly though, I think everyone needs to calm down. This is why Steven Universe fandoms don't have the best rep.

      This isn't getting emotional.  This is simply evaluating the meanings and messages contained in a work of art.  This is what you do in literature classes.  People attending film school watch and dissect movies for years to earn their degrees and work in the film industry.  People do this in creative writing courses in order to understand how writing works so they can create quality work for the publishing industry.  Steven Universe may be a kids show but it's created by adults.  These adults are trained, professional storytellers.  As a result Steven Universe is a nuanced, structured and layered story reflective of the beliefs, ideologies and life experiences of the people who create it.  Part of understanding any form of art, even art intended for children, is being able to explore those layers.

      Nobody ever says, "it's just a kids show" when talking about Avatar, The Last Airbender.  It was undeniably a kids show but no one denies that it was s story with considerable depth and meaning.  Steven Universe delves into issues of abuse, acceptance, LGBTQ rights, war, genocide, atrocities, etc.  It isn't Strawberry Shortcake.  Some fans will just take it at face value and leave it at that.  Others will want to plumb those depths.

      Exactly.

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    • DON'T WORRY GUYS! I GOT THIS! (takes Steven's gem out and rejuvenates it, then shatters it into dust) THERE! NOW PINK'S REALLY GONE :D

      Steven died that very day due to a lack of a gem in his belly button

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    • Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. She was like a god with the mind of a 3 year old. 

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    • I pretty much disagree with Tthose of you who thinking negatively about Pink Diamond

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    • Pink needs to see what his son has become. If only Steven himself calls out his mom for making his life miserable. Pinks needs to apologize to all!

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    • InazumAzure wrote:
      Pink needs to see what his son has become. If only Steven himself calls out his mom for making his life miserable. Pinks needs to apologize to all!

      Agreed

      I'm pretty sure she didn't want to hurt anyone

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    • Negaboss2000 wrote:
      InazumAzure wrote:
      Pink needs to see what his son has become. If only Steven himself calls out his mom for making his life miserable. Pinks needs to apologize to all!
      Agreed

      I'm pretty sure she didn't want to hurt anyone

      True, she didn't want to hurt anyone. But she did, and she can't own up to it or try to make it right.

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    • Negaboss2000 wrote:
      I pretty much disagree with Tthose of you who thinking negatively about Pink Diamond

      What is the basis for your disagreement?  What examples can you cite from the series to support your position?  It's not enough to state your disagreement.  You have to back it with up arguments if you want your position to be taken seriously.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Negaboss2000 wrote:
      I pretty much disagree with Tthose of you who thinking negatively about Pink Diamond
      What is the basis for your disagreement?  What examples can you cite from the series to support your position?  It's not enough to state your disagreement.  You have to back it with up arguments if you want your position to be taken seriously.

      One of the examples would be that the Diamonds were always so strict with Pink and never gave her enough freedom.

      Other than that, I can conclude that a lot of people are too stubborn to see the positives of Pink Diamond

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    • Can you actually tell us the positives? All you're saying is that you disagree with our views on her, and you don't back up your argument.

      Also, you telling us that the Diamonds never gave her enough freedom, isn't actually a positive. More like an excuse, or justification on your part.

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote:
      Can you actually tell us the positives? All you're saying is that you disagree with our views on her, and you don't back up your argument.

      Also, you telling us that the Diamonds never gave her enough freedom, isn't actually a positive. More like an excuse, or justification on your part.

      Alright, another Positive is that Pink Diamond wanted to save Earth just to protect it's beauty and it's worth

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    • Negaboss2000 wrote:
      Alright, another Positive is that Pink Diamond wanted to save Earth just to protect it's beauty and it's worth

      That's not true.

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      • sniff* Aahhh I love the smell of Karens clutching their pearls in the morning. Don't worry, Karen, I got your wig. Pink's not a monster, you can chill out now.
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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Negaboss2000 wrote:
      Alright, another Positive is that Pink Diamond wanted to save Earth just to protect it's beauty and it's worth
      That's not true.

      You watchin' the same show as the rest of us? Must be. You really need to learn the difference between fanfiction and a cartoon. Might help you in the long run.

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    • QueenCerberus wrote:

      You watchin' the same show as the rest of us? Must be. You really need to learn the difference between fanfiction and a cartoon. Might help you in the long run.

      No.  I'm watching the one Rebecca Sugar created and aired on Cartoon Network.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      QueenCerberus wrote:

      You watchin' the same show as the rest of us? Must be. You really need to learn the difference between fanfiction and a cartoon. Might help you in the long run.

      No.  I'm watching the one Rebecca Sugar created and aired on Cartoon Network.

      But Pink/Rose's whole thing was protecting earth for it's beauty and worth. To save the whole planet so it wouldn't get hurt

      oh hey that rhymed

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:

      But Pink/Rose's whole thing was protecting earth for it's beauty and worth. To save the whole planet so it wouldn't get hurt

      oh hey that rhymed

      No.  Pink's whole thing was that she thought humans were cute and funny and she loved having sex with them.  Do remember that Pink was a liar and she lied to the Crystal Gems for as long as she lived.  Any information you have about Pink that came from the Crystal Gems cannot be trusted. 

      We know from the dialogue as well as Pearl's song, It's Over, Isn't It that Pink had a stream of sexual encounters with humans that lasted thousands of years.  This is what Pearl found so frustrating.  This is why Pearl was so hostile to Greg.  We know from the episode We Need to Talk that Pink treated Greg as a toy.  When he asked her if she respected him she laughed in his face.  Humans just replaced Spinel as Pink's favorite playthings.  Pink kept a small collection of humans at the Human Zoo.  Pink's quarters at the Human Zoo had a bed.  Steven Universe made it about as clear as you could in a children's show that Pink's interest in Earth and humans was far from platonic.

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    • Memin' Universe SU
      Memin' Universe SU removed this reply because:
      e
      21:50, March 24, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:
      Hawas1983 wrote:

      No.  Pink's whole thing was that she thought humans were cute and funny and she loved having sex with them

      WHAT THE- NO! THAT'S NOT- PLEASE EDIT THAT

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote: WHAT THE- NO! THAT'S NOT- PLEASE EDIT THAT

      What kind of relationship do you think Pink and Greg had before the events of We Need to Talk?  What do you think they were doing before Greg felt the need to know of Pink respected him?  If Pink wasn't treating him like a person, what was she treating him like?

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:

      Memin' Universe SU wrote: WHAT THE- NO! THAT'S NOT- PLEASE EDIT THAT

      What kind of relationship do you think Pink and Greg had before the events of We Need to Talk?  What do you think they were doing before Greg felt the need to know of Pink respected him?  If Pink wasn't treating him like a person, what was she treating him like?

      Please stop

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:

      Please stop

      Tell that to Rebecca Sugar and Ian Jones-Quarty.  It's their scenario.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Memin' Universe SU wrote:

      Please stop

      Tell that to Rebecca Sugar and Ian Jones-Quarty.  It's their scenario.

      I'm talking to you, not them

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:
      I'm talking to you, not them

      Are you trying to blame Hawas for Rose and Greg having sex? Because if you don't like the idea of Rose and Greg having said sex, then that is a problem you have with Rebecca Sugar as she made the show.

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:

      I'm talking to you, not them

      Then you're wasting your time.  I did not create Steven Universe.  They did.  This is their story told with their characters.  If there are aspects of the show you find problematic they are responsible for those aspects.  I'm just following the story they're telling.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Memin' Universe SU wrote:

      I'm talking to you, not them

      Then you're wasting your time.  I did not create Steven Universe.  They did.  This is their story told with their characters.  If there are aspects of the show you find problematic they are responsible for those aspects.  I'm just following the story they're telling.

      I'm just simply telling you to stop talking about it

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:

      I'm just simply telling you to stop talking about it

      You cannot analyze Pink Diamond's actions and motivations without talking about it.  It's an important part of her character.

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    • Memin' Universe SU wrote:

      I'm just simply telling you to stop talking about it

      You can always just stop commenting on this page. Isn't it already implied they had sex anyway? How would they have Steven otherwise?

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    • DetectiveAquamarine wrote:

      You can always just stop commenting on this page. Isn't it already implied they had sex anyway? How would they have Steven otherwise?

      The issue under dispute is what kind of person was Pink Diamond.  Part of that issue is Pink's motivations for starting the war against herself in the first place.  Some people believe that she did it out of a desire to protect the life on Earth out of love for its beauty.  Others argue otherwise.  Pink's feelings towards humans are a key point in determining why Pink did the things she did.  They're going to be part of the argument.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Silvergem445 wrote:

      Hey Um, don't take this the wrong way, but you're being a bit too emotional about this. Honestly, it's a tv show. People are gonna have their own views and stuff. Soe may not look deeper into the characters or story or even meaning, but getting worked up about it won't help. I'm new signing on, but I've seen the posts about Pink. Some are quite shocking. I myself don't really like her, but the reasons have been stated why. I think you need to calm down though, and just let others like what they like. As for this user, I do kind of get what they mean about her. I don't think they are condoning her actions. Honestly though, I think everyone needs to calm down. This is why Steven Universe fandoms don't have the best rep.

      This isn't getting emotional.  This is simply evaluating the meanings and messages contained in a work of art.  This is what you do in literature classes.  People attending film school watch and dissect movies for years to earn their degrees and work in the film industry.  People do this in creative writing courses in order to understand how writing works so they can create quality work for the publishing industry.  Steven Universe may be a kids show but it's created by adults.  These adults are trained, professional storytellers.  As a result Steven Universe is a nuanced, structured and layered story reflective of the beliefs, ideologies and life experiences of the people who create it.  Part of understanding any form of art, even art intended for children, is being able to explore those layers.

      Nobody ever says, "it's just a kids show" when talking about Avatar, The Last Airbender.  It was undeniably a kids show but no one denies that it was s story with considerable depth and meaning.  Steven Universe delves into issues of abuse, acceptance, LGBTQ rights, war, genocide, atrocities, etc.  It isn't Strawberry Shortcake.  Some fans will just take it at face value and leave it at that.  Others will want to plumb those depths.

      It would just be nice if maybe didn't sound like you know better than those who don't agree with you or say soemthing that might go against your opinion. Words have powerful meanings and hoenstly, from what I think you're saying, you're either impying I don't think the show is smart or maybe think I'm simple. I don't like Pink, and agree with what others say, but honestly what you just said irks me the wrong way. Maybe it's because I'm overly sensitive though. Like I said though, it would be nice if you didn't say things in kind of such a superior way I guess. Though posting this, I may have dug my own grave lol. 

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    • Shimmysan wrote:

      It would just be nice if maybe didn't sound like you know better than those who don't agree with you or say soemthing that might go against your opinion. Words have powerful meanings and hoenstly, from what I think you're saying, you're either impying I don't think the show is smart or maybe think I'm simple. I don't like Pink, and agree with what others say, but honestly what you just said irks me the wrong way. Maybe it's because I'm overly sensitive though. Like I said though, it would be nice if you didn't say things in kind of such a superior way I guess. Though posting this, I may have dug my own grave lol. 

      That's how debate works.  You put forth your arguments for your position while answering your opponent's counter-arguments.  That's how we resolve disputes now that rapiers and dueling pistols have been outlawed.  No one is compelled to enter the fray but if you choose to step up and put your ideas on the line you'd best make sure you have sound arguments and the facts to back them up.  Debate is a crucible designed to burn away bad ideas in the fires of reason.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Shimmysan wrote:

      It would just be nice if maybe didn't sound like you know better than those who don't agree with you or say soemthing that might go against your opinion. Words have powerful meanings and hoenstly, from what I think you're saying, you're either impying I don't think the show is smart or maybe think I'm simple. I don't like Pink, and agree with what others say, but honestly what you just said irks me the wrong way. Maybe it's because I'm overly sensitive though. Like I said though, it would be nice if you didn't say things in kind of such a superior way I guess. Though posting this, I may have dug my own grave lol. 

      That's how debate works.  You put forth your arguments for your position while answering your opponent's counter-arguments.  That's how we resolve disputes now that rapiers and dueling pistols have been outlawed.  No one is compelled to enter the fray but if you choose to step up and put your ideas on the line you'd best make sure you have sound arguments and the facts to back them up.  Debate is a crucible designed to burn away bad ideas in the fires of reason.

      But even in a debate class, one has to be civil. And while things do get heated, the group has to learn to calm down. It's one thing to show your arguments. It's anohter to act like your opinion is absolute or that one who differs from you is wrong or stupid. Basically, acting superior to others. That's not something that's good for this thread or debate groups. Make your opinion known and of course state why you don't agree, but acting suprior is not really cool. Since you didn't really argue what I said, I'm thinking what I said coul be right. 

      Also, you say make an example of something. Okay, you say she's a villain, but the creators have said the show has no villains. You say the characters are deep, then this means she's deeper than what I've seen from either arguments. As for her having a good side, her reacton at realizing her envasion would desotry Earth and take all that life, show's that to a degree she cares about the people. She pleaded for the Diamonds to spare the planet. However, then you show her beginning a war and even acting as both Rose and Pink. That shows her bad side and selfish side as she could've stopped the war. 

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    • Shimmysan wrote:

      But even in a debate class, one has to be civil. And while things do get heated, the group has to learn to calm down. It's one thing to show your arguments. It's anohter to act like your opinion is absolute or that one who differs from you is wrong or stupid. Basically, acting superior to others. That's not something that's good for this thread or debate groups. Make your opinion known and of course state why you don't agree, but acting suprior is not really cool. Since you didn't really argue what I said, I'm thinking what I said coul be right. 

      And when have I been uncivil?  When have I done anything other than support my case with rational argument and citations from the source material?  When have I made any claims that my opinions are absolute?  When have I made any claims about my opinions whatsoever?  When have I stated that disagreement with me is wrong or stupid?  In what way am I acting superior?

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Shimmysan wrote:

      But even in a debate class, one has to be civil. And while things do get heated, the group has to learn to calm down. It's one thing to show your arguments. It's anohter to act like your opinion is absolute or that one who differs from you is wrong or stupid. Basically, acting superior to others. That's not something that's good for this thread or debate groups. Make your opinion known and of course state why you don't agree, but acting suprior is not really cool. Since you didn't really argue what I said, I'm thinking what I said coul be right. 

      And when have I been uncivil?  When have I done anything other than support my case with rational argument and citations from the source material?  When have I made any claims that my opinions are absolute?  When have I made any claims about my opinions whatsoever?  When have I stated that disagreement with me is wrong or stupid?  In what way am I acting superior?

      I already said I may be being to sensitive or misinterpreting. Clarification was all I needed. Anyway, I did make a claim on Pink. You said add evidence and I did. I'm not the type just to say something without proof. I've been in English as well and know I need evidence for my opinion and I give one about Pink not being either or.



      Okay, you say she's a villain, but the creators have said the show has no villains. You say the characters are deep, then this means she's deeper than what I've seen from either arguments. As for her having a good side, her reacton at realizing her envasion would desotry Earth and take all that life, show's that to a degree she cares about the people. She pleaded for the Diamonds to spare the planet. However, then you show her beginning a war and even acting as both Rose and Pink. That shows her bad side and selfish side as she could've stopped the war. 

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    • Shimmysan wrote:

      Okay, you say she's a villain, but the creators have said the show has no villains. You say the characters are deep, then this means she's deeper than what I've seen from either arguments. As for her having a good side, her reacton at realizing her envasion would desotry Earth and take all that life, show's that to a degree she cares about the people. She pleaded for the Diamonds to spare the planet. However, then you show her beginning a war and even acting as both Rose and Pink. That shows her bad side and selfish side as she could've stopped the war. 

      I'm not the only one who say's she's a villain.  Both Rebecca Sugar and Ian Jones-Quarty have stated that she's a villain and a really awful person in this podcast.  Skip ahead to the 10:00 minute mark to hear it.  You don't have to take my word for it. 

      As for Pink realizing her invasion would destroy the Earth, how would she not realize it?  She was a Diamond.  She was there when Yellow Diamond ordered the destruction of organic life on the Jungle Moon planet.  Pink was well aware of what getting her own colony would mean yet she pestered the other Diamonds for a colony anyway.  If life was so precious to her why would she want a colony at all?  She certainly appeared to have no problem killing both gems and humans in a fake thousand year war against herself.  Then she faked her own death in that war.  What did she think the other Diamonds would do in response to that?  She's was a Diamond herself so she knew the death of a Diamond would call down the full wrath of the Empire.  Peridot even pointed out how Pink's little plan accomplished absolutely nothing other than sealing Earth's fate.

      And when all the damage had been done she did nothing to atone for any of it.  She continued to lie to the surviving Crystal Gems about everything right up to the day of her death.  She left nothing behind for them or Steven explaining the truth of everything they went through. 

      And let's not forget Spinel and Pink Pearl.

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    • Hawas1983 wrote:
      Shimmysan wrote:

      Okay, you say she's a villain, but the creators have said the show has no villains. You say the characters are deep, then this means she's deeper than what I've seen from either arguments. As for her having a good side, her reacton at realizing her envasion would desotry Earth and take all that life, show's that to a degree she cares about the people. She pleaded for the Diamonds to spare the planet. However, then you show her beginning a war and even acting as both Rose and Pink. That shows her bad side and selfish side as she could've stopped the war. 

      I'm not the only one who say's she's a villain.  Both Rebecca Sugar and Ian Jones-Quarty have stated that she's a villain and a really awful person in this podcast.  Skip ahead to the 10:00 minute mark to hear it.  You don't have to take my word for it. 

      As for Pink realizing her invasion would destroy the Earth, how would she not realize it?  She was a Diamond.  She was there when Yellow Diamond ordered the destruction of organic life on the Jungle Moon planet.  Pink was well aware of what getting her own colony would mean yet she pestered the other Diamonds for a colony anyway.  If life was so precious to her why would she want a colony at all?  She certainly appeared to have no problem killing both gems and humans in a fake thousand year war against herself.  Then she faked her own death in that war.  What did she think the other Diamonds would do in response to that?  She's was a Diamond herself so she knew the death of a Diamond would call down the full wrath of the Empire.  Peridot even pointed out how Pink's little plan accomplished absolutely nothing other than sealing Earth's fate.

      And when all the damage had been done she did nothing to atone for any of it.  She continued to lie to the surviving Crystal Gems about everything right up to the day of her death.  She left nothing behind for them or Steven explaining the truth of everything they went through. 

      And let's not forget Spinel and Pink Pearl.

      They never said she was a villain.  Rebecca did say that she an awful person though, and Ian said how he liked the trope of a villain mistreating their subordinate.  At best, rebecca described rose as a morally grey character.

      Pink may have been on the planet, but she seemed to have no idea as to what was actually happening or the process.

      She may have wanted a colony, but she seemed to have no idea about the actual consequences of what colony building does to a planet.

      no problem with humans dying?  Well then, I guess she should have just let the colonizing process continue so that humans became extinct.  And it's also worth remembering that the reason she got gems involved (when first going it alone with PEarl) was to free them as well.

      as with faking her death, it was made clear that the only way to end the war and free the earth was if pink diamond was to disappear.  It also seemed in a single pale rose that Rose didn't think the diamonds truly cared about her, so she had no idea their they would have reacted the way they did.

      And peridot never said that her actions sealed the earth's fate, only that it delayed what she thought was the inevitable.

      And what do you mean she didn't do anything to atone for it?  What about collecting the corrupted?  Garnet even mentioned that Rose tried to heal them.  What more could she have done?  

      As for continuing to lie to Garnet and Amethyst, I'm sure that would have been an interesting conversation if she ever told the truth, especially from what we saw their reactions were and their treatment of Rose's memory.

      But yes, she should have told STeven at least the truth, or at least given him some video that explained everything, but probably thought it was best to leave the past buried.  And also would have thought that her son would have despised her for who she was and what she did.

      But yeah, what she did to SPinel was the least excusable.  I don't think she meant to hurt Spinel though, it just never occurred to her that she had her own feelings.  Course that doesn't excuse what she did.

      As for Pink Pearl, it's worth remembering that Pink didn't intentionally hurt her, and that experience effected her so much that it changed her personality.  And if you think that Pink still shouldn't be forgiven for that, just remember that Steven ended up doing far worst to a gem during his pink phase (cough! Jasper), yet I'm sure that most fans have forgiven him.

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    • Anonymius wrote:

      "They never said she was a villain.  Rebecca did say that she an awful person though, and Ian said how he liked the trope of a villain mistreating their subordinate.  At best, rebecca described rose as a morally grey character."

      Pink may have been on the planet, but she seemed to have no idea as to what was actually happening or the process.

      She may have wanted a colony, but she seemed to have no idea about the actual consequences of what colony building does to a planet.

      no problem with humans dying?  Well then, I guess she should have just let the colonizing process continue so that humans became extinct.  And it's also worth remembering that the reason she got gems involved (when first going it alone with PEarl) was to free them as well.

      as with faking her death, it was made clear that the only way to end the war and free the earth was if pink diamond was to disappear.  It also seemed in a single pale rose that Rose didn't think the diamonds truly cared about her, so she had no idea their they would have reacted the way they did.

      And peridot never said that her actions sealed the earth's fate, only that it delayed what she thought was the inevitable.

      And what do you mean she didn't do anything to atone for it?  What about collecting the corrupted?  Garnet even mentioned that Rose tried to heal them.  What more could she have done?  

      As for continuing to lie to Garnet and Amethyst, I'm sure that would have been an interesting conversation if she ever told the truth, especially from what we saw their reactions were and their treatment of Rose's memory.

      But yes, she should have told STeven at least the truth, or at least given him some video that explained everything, but probably thought it was best to leave the past buried.  And also would have thought that her son would have despised her for who she was and what she did.

      But yeah, what she did to SPinel was the least excusable.  I don't think she meant to hurt Spinel though, it just never occurred to her that she had her own feelings.  Course that doesn't excuse what she did.

      As for Pink Pearl, it's worth remembering that Pink didn't intentionally hurt her, and that experience effected her so much that it changed her personality.  And if you think that Pink still shouldn't be forgiven for that, just remember that Steven ended up doing far worst to a gem during his pink phase (cough! Jasper), yet I'm sure that most fans have forgiven him.

      Ian Jones-Quarty specifically said she was a villain.  He says that his favorite trope is the villain that treats their subordinates badly and that we learn that Rose was that, meaning a villain that treats her subordinates badly.  Squirm all you want but we have a recording of his exact words.  And just what part of "really awful person" suggests that she was morally grey?  Charles Manson was a really awful person.  Was he morally grey?

      "Pink may have been on the planet, but she seemed to have no idea as to what was actually happening or the process. She may have wanted a colony, but she seemed to have no idea about the actual consequences of what colony building does to a planet."

      How do you know she had no idea of the process?  She was a Diamond.  Remember what gems are.  They have no childhoods.  They aren't educated or trained.  They pop out of their kindergartens fully developed with all the skills and knowledge they need to take their place in gem society.  Pink Diamond knew everything she needed to know to be a Diamond.  She was with Yellow Diamond as she was colonizing the Jungle Moon planet.  She saw Yellow Diamond specifically order her forces to destroy the organic life on the planet's surface.  She wouldn't have gotten a colony unless she convinced White that she knew what to do and was able to do it.

      "no problem with humans dying?  Well then, I guess she should have just let the colonizing process continue so that humans became extinct.  And it's also worth remembering that the reason she got gems involved (when first going it alone with PEarl) was to free them as well."

      As opposed to starting a war against herself that raged across the planet for a thousand years killing gems and humans in vast numbers?  If she cared so much about humans dying why didn't she simply turn down the colony?  No one would have died if she had done that.  And freeing the gems wasn't her goal.  Securing the planet for herself and her new favorite hobby was her goal.  Bizmuth wanted to free the gems and invented a weapon with which to do it.  She wanted to take the war to Homeworld and liberate the entire gem race from the rule of the Diamonds but Pink wasn't having any of that.  Pink bubbled Bizmuth, hid her in Lion's mane and kept that a secret from the other gems to her grave.  Pink Diamond was no liberator.

      "as with faking her death, it was made clear that the only way to end the war and free the earth was if pink diamond was to disappear.  It also seemed in a single pale rose that Rose didn't think the diamonds truly cared about her, so she had no idea their they would have reacted the way they did."

      Pink could have ended the war at any time.  She was fighting against herself.  All she had to do was have one side surrender to the other.  Not hard since she was in command of both sides.  As for the other Diamonds not caring, Pink knew better.  A Diamond being killed by gems in rebellion is unacceptable to the power structure of the Empire regardless of how they felt about Pink.  It's standard politics.  You kill a head of state and there will be reprisals.

      "And peridot never said that her actions sealed the earth's fate, only that it delayed what she thought was the inevitable."

      Peridot: "Well if she wanted to protect it, she did a lousy job! There'd be no Cluster if the Earth had stayed a colony. Now there's no colony, and there's gonna be no Earth, so thank you, Rose Quartz! You doomed the planet!"

      "And what do you mean she didn't do anything to atone for it?  What about collecting the corrupted?  Garnet even mentioned that Rose tried to heal them.  What more could she have done?"

      Well, she could have actually spent time trying to find a cure for corruption rather than traipsing around the planet turning it into her personal harem.  She could have told the Crystal Gems the truth about who she was and why the war was fought.  She could have freed Bizmuth, explained everything to her and then apologized for bubbling and abandoning her.  She could have sent a message to Spinel rescinding her order to stand still in the garden allowing Spinel to leave the garden and make a new life for herself.  She could have released Pearl from her gag order.  She could have left an apology to Pink Pearl.  She could have left behind a message for Steven after her death that explained everything to him about her history and his heritage as a Diamond.  That would have been a good start.

      "As for continuing to lie to Garnet and Amethyst, I'm sure that would have been an interesting conversation if she ever told the truth, especially from what we saw their reactions were and their treatment of Rose's memory."

      It would have been an interesting conversation.  Also a necessary one.  It would have saved the surviving Crystal Gems millennia of trauma.  Pink took the people who loved her and dragged them through hell and then left them there when she died.  The Crystal Gems would have lived their lives knowing the truth rather than remain trapped in Pink's web of lies.  It would have been painful but they would have been free.

      "But yes, she should have told STeven at least the truth, or at least given him some video that explained everything, but probably thought it was best to leave the past buried.  And also would have thought that her son would have despised her for who she was and what she did."

      And look how well that turned out.  Pink never made a descent, compassionate decision in her life and left a wake of ruin behind her to prove it.  And ultimately it accomplished nothing because the truth came out eventually and Steven does despise her.  Deservedly so given what she did to everyone in her life.

      "But yeah, what she did to SPinel was the least excusable.  I don't think she meant to hurt Spinel though, it just never occurred to her that she had her own feelings.  Course that doesn't excuse what she did."

      Then stop trying to excuse it.

      "As for Pink Pearl, it's worth remembering that Pink didn't intentionally hurt her, and that experience effected her so much that it changed her personality.  And if you think that Pink still shouldn't be forgiven for that, just remember that Steven ended up doing far worst to a gem during his pink phase (cough! Jasper), yet I'm sure that most fans have forgiven him."

      And there it is.  The abuse apologist's refrain.  "I didn't mean to hurt you."  The fact remains that Pink Pearl was hurt.  She was hurt badly and for thousands of years.  If Pink couldn't treat Spinel like a person what makes you think she'd treat Pink Pearl like one?  Pearls are purpose built slaves.  They're property.  They have a facility where they're made, maintained, repaired and is stocked with more accessories than a Barbie doll.  It's no surprise that Pink would use hers as a convenient punching bag.

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